Redlands18
Well-Known Member
IIRC something similar happened with the Bushmasters, the original order ended up being only 299, final numbers were 1052.
Where are you seeing this? I just did a new search and nothing coming up? What happened to waiting till after the review? Any mention of the winner?
It makes sense reducing the initial order but getting production up and running with additional batches to follow.
It also leaves the potential for additional variants to be produced as required, same with Boxer. Once the first units achieve IOC and Army gets a handle on the new capability, they can potentially justify further deployment, maybe even to select reserve units as well.
It also leaves the potential for additional variants to be produced as required, same with Boxer. Once the first units achieve IOC and Army gets a handle on the new capability, they can potentially justify further deployment, maybe even to select reserve units as well.
Behind a paywall and no declared solution as yet, but the pertinent comments for LAND 400 Ph.3 are:
The new 9th brigade set up in Adelaide almost certainly. It will be an ARA enabled capability with regs maintaining the vehicles and reservists operating on them, perhaps with fulltime contracted periods to get to grips on the capability under Army Objective Force.
Other more ‘disconnected’ reserve units? No chance I’d suggest…
buffy9
Well-Known Member
A good outcome considering the costing circumstances. Having the ability to build and maintain them is better than not having anything at all and continuing to cruise around in lightly armoured PMVs and APCs.
The "land-based deployable strike capability" is interesting. I wonder whether this is an extension of any HIMARS (for two REGT as opposed to one) or whether it is looking at longer reached systems like Typhon to jump on the back of bulk SM-6 and Tomahawk buys.
A 50/50 split of regs and chocs? I do worry about being able to generate a BG based partially on reservists (based on my own experiences as one), though it will likely be more cost effective. Ideally the necessary manning can be pooled for major exercises.
If 7RAR manning is freed-up however, I can recall past ideas of raising 4RAR as another littoral battalion within 1BDE?
9 BDE is exactly the formation I was thinking.
Trackmaster
Member
Yes, I saw that and thought.."that's an interesting leak".
Smoothing down some very ruffled feathers.
What interests me now is where the order for the upgraded M1s, and the engineering and bridging vehicles stands.
Already in production. Contract was signed back in December 2021 according to Head of Land Capability…
MARKMILES77
Active Member
The interview with Albanese did not seem positive for armoured vehicles at all:
www.theage.com.au
‘We need to be prepared to invest’: Albanese highlights need for subs, not tanks
The prime minister has challenged previous plans to ramp up Australia’s armoured capabilities, saying a land war defending western Queensland was highly unlikely.
Takao
The Bunker Group
The only thing less likely than a land war in western QLD would be no arguments over Australia Day. I mean, even that is probably more likely than a land war in western QLD. Probably one of the main reasons that the Army (in all its guises) hasn't actually done that yet.The interview with Albanese did not seem positive for armoured vehicles at all:
‘We need to be prepared to invest’: Albanese highlights need for subs, not tanks
The prime minister has challenged previous plans to ramp up Australia’s armoured capabilities, saying a land war defending western Queensland was highly unlikely.
Fought plenty of other places though. After all, Australian interests do not stop at the 12 nm line....
In regards to investing that usually follows research, this interesting article makes some interesting points for the use of laser weapons and certainly points out some weaknesses of missile based defences of course it's an opinion and everyone has one
Why laser weapons are the future of missile defense – Asia Times
Directed energy weapons for the ADF - Defence Connect
Why laser weapons are the future of missile defense – Asia Times
Directed energy weapons for the ADF - Defence Connect
MARKMILES77
Active Member
Supposed structure of the Australian Army from 2025.
Looks like there is planned to be 1 Artillery Regiment with tracked guns and 4 Artillery Regiments equipped with M777s.
I don't think there are enough M777s to allow this unless a top up buy is made.
Looks like there is planned to be 1 Artillery Regiment with tracked guns and 4 Artillery Regiments equipped with M777s.
I don't think there are enough M777s to allow this unless a top up buy is made.
Not a good add for Rheinmetal with 18 of 18 well prepared Pumas breaking down…. Nato force set back by German tank’s ‘total failure’ — The Times and The Sunday Times
"In response to the request for help from our allies, we will send an armoured Brigade"! "Whoops, um sorry we apparently don't have any, we will send medics, engineers and special forces instead". "We will send Infantry too but only as security for the others, apparently if we send them out side the wire without heavy armour and adequate support, including aviation with self defence systems, they will probably be killed"......The only thing less likely than a land war in western QLD would be no arguments over Australia Day. I mean, even that is probably more likely than a land war in western QLD. Probably one of the main reasons that the Army (in all its guises) hasn't actually done that yet.
Fought plenty of other places though. After all, Australian interests do not stop at the 12 nm line....
buffy9
Well-Known Member
It would be maxing out the number of guns we have (left). It may be a case of the Land Force Forward Staging, whereby you have four M777 trained units (including the Perth based reserve) who receive access for training purposes, with the majority of guns stored at the staging areas. Of course you wouldn't be able to deploy all the units at once due to a lack of guns, but that would be a major effort in itself whilst trained units gives some flexibility.
Or one of the units may be placed back on the backburner until a second regiment of SPGs is acquired, if that happens to still be the plan as per the FSP. Once that is the case each BDE (1, 3, 7, 9 and 13) should have either an M777 or an AS9 regiment trained in location.
Plus everything under 8BDE for DIV or JTF fires.
Edit:
Its a good summary, but I suspect it may be missing some things. The status of some of the inf battalions is also strange - 3RAR and 6RAR are shown as wheeled mechanised units (as if Boxer or characterising PMV as mech?), whereas 7RAR is shown as more traditional mech, while 1 and 8/9 are shown as light...
For e.g., it is indicated in this ALM video that a new unit will be formed for operating the LMV fleet, probably in 1BDE. This doesn't seem to appear in the mentioned orbat.
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@kato explains it here in his post in the Germany thread. Possibly not a Rheinmettall problem but may be more the unit involved stuffing up.
blame regardless…it’s not a good look when we have land 400 P3 up in the air. Anyone in Canberra not prepared to dig any deeper than the headline could be thinking let’s avoid another availability issue…however I expect that decision has been made by now regardless. I wonder given the economic climate ( and the apparent evenness of the contenders) they will just choose the cheapest overall option.
Anthony_B_78
Active Member
I wouldn't read too much into that diagram. I think your post of July (#9331) is more instructive, specifically the slides shown by Brigadier Ian Langford Director-General of Future Land Warfare.
In the second one, you see that 1 Brigade has no artillery allocated to it; 3 and 7 brigades each would have 2 SPHs and 4 M777s; and 9 Brigade would have 8 SPHs. In addition, there would be 42 SPHs and 32 M777s shared between two staging locations, and 6 and 14 allocated to training respectively.
What can we extrapolate from that? I think you could see the artillery regiments of 3 and 7 brigades each having two batteries with the M777 and one with the K9, while 9 Brigade would have three batteries with the K9.
Incidentally, we had 54 M777s, but have given 6 to Ukraine, which leaves 48. Four batteries with six guns would require 24 - half. Similarly, five batteries with six guns each with the K9 would equal 30, or half the 60 we intend to buy.
I do find the intended structure interesting but I'm mindful that it's always evolving.
For many of the units their intended role is based upon equipment not currently in service.
This is not a criticism, just the fact that it takes many years to role out new vehicles,watercraft and aircraft.
What we aspire to in 2022 many look very different when the actual fleets of stock are acquired in some cases up to ten years time.
Basic overview is we are now evolving a four Brigade structure with one lighter motorized Brigade based in the north developing a coastal maneuver skill set.
Of the other three Brigades, two appear to have a similar structure, while the SA based 9th Brigade looks to have a heavier armoured structure.
Not sure if this is a long term thing or just to trial out new kit and concepts pending introduction of the outcome to the other two brigades ( 3rd and 7th )
Again Army appears to always be evolving.
Good to see 13th Brigade out west getting some focus and additional regular support.
Somewhat puzzled as to why Perth with half the population of Melbourne can field twice as many battalions!!!!
Not that I see Melbourne as under threat, but as a contribution to the national effort a city of five million should be better utilized.
Melbourne did have two battalions back in the late 70's.
4th Brigade does get 12/40 Regiment from Tasmania which makes sense.
Would be interested as to whats happening with the special forces.
Will the Commandos get an additional Sqn / Coy?
An interesting decade ahead.
Cheers S