Not sure if there is anything in this ABC article about some concerns with the Boxer.
www.abc.net.au
Anyone have any information.
Regards S
Concerns for fleet of armoured vehicles deemed overweight and unprotected from missile attack
An overweight weapons system is threatening to delay a multi-billion-dollar army project, prompting alarm across government, the military and defence industry.
www.abc.net.au
Anyone have any information.
Regards S
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
I read through it and it honestly sounded a bit like a beatup piece. The comment about the cannon only being able to fire German-made ammunition comes to mind as a good example. If these are cannons which are new to Australian service, then there would have been no reason for Australian facilities to have yet been re-tooled to produce the 30 mm ammunition, or been through the appropriate certification processes proving that they can produce the ordnance to the requires specifications. The article even later on mentions that Rheinmetall had not been asked to qualify other manufacturers for the ammunition. I would imagine that Australia would likely want to have at least some domestic production, possibly at Lithgow, and if so would then seek to have qualifications made.Not sure if there is anything in this ABC article about some concerns with the Boxer.
Concerns for fleet of armoured vehicles deemed overweight and unprotected from missile attack
An overweight weapons system is threatening to delay a multi-billion-dollar army project, prompting alarm across government, the military and defence industry.
Anyone have any information.
Regards S
It would also be "interesting" to have Australian media look into, and report on just what and how much ordnance that the ADF fields is actually able to be produced domestically. I would expect that much of the complex ordnance has to be imported, though Australia may have some domestic production capability and/or component production which goes into the completed munitions.
You won’t get anything positive about Defence from that woke organisation
Definitely. There was another article from them posted on an ex RNZN social media site and I posted in reply stating the Australian MSM expertise on defence was about as useful as tits on a bull.You won’t get anything positive about Defence from that woke organisation
The media have an excuse, but this has been discussed here several times so those paying attention already know. Rheinmetal are establishing an ammunition facility at Maryborough.
Rheinmetall NIOA Munitions - Maryborough Forge Facility
Head to ICN Gateway to view the latest project information for Rheinmetall NIOA Munitions - Maryborough Forge Facility
(Edit: started building it in May 2020)
Build starts on Maryborough forging plant – TIQ
Construction of the $60 million Rheinmetall NIOA Munitions (RNM) shell forging and manufacturing facility in Maryborough has begun, with early works commencing on site.
www.tiq.qld.gov.au
Like at lot of people on this post, I regularly read and watch topics about military history. I have read with interest articles and posts on this thread about the value of tanks. They say look at history so you dont repeat the mistakes of the future. So I will reflect on 1942 New Guinea. When you look at the battle of Milne Bay and Buna. Whoever had tanks dictated the battle.
The Japanese brought tanks to Milne Bay. Once they were taken out, the Japanese advance was stopped at the airfield and pushed back to the sea.
The Japanese had brilliant fortifications at Buna. It was a killing field for the allied infantry. These weren't over run until the allies used combined arm tactics with tanks and infantry.
Both instances tanks supporting infantry were decisive in battle. I know there were other factors that decided the battle and my summary is simplistic. It just it shows that the partnership works then and I believe into the future. I hope 79 is enough.
I could list many referances. I'm just referancing my most recent source https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF0ws4GxTaK6EZ0YuiWaCWw
Regards
DD
The Japanese brought tanks to Milne Bay. Once they were taken out, the Japanese advance was stopped at the airfield and pushed back to the sea.
The Japanese had brilliant fortifications at Buna. It was a killing field for the allied infantry. These weren't over run until the allies used combined arm tactics with tanks and infantry.
Both instances tanks supporting infantry were decisive in battle. I know there were other factors that decided the battle and my summary is simplistic. It just it shows that the partnership works then and I believe into the future. I hope 79 is enough.
I could list many referances. I'm just referancing my most recent source https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF0ws4GxTaK6EZ0YuiWaCWw
Regards
DD
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Oops. That is what happens when one makes an off the cuff post and does not double check. I had remembered that a second munitions facility apart from Lithgow was either already available, or soon would be, but I had forgotten that Rheinmetall was involved in Maryborough.The media have an excuse, but this has been discussed here several times so those paying attention already know. Rheinmetal are establishing an ammunition facility at Maryborough.
Rheinmetall NIOA Munitions - Maryborough Forge Facility
Head to ICN Gateway to view the latest project information for Rheinmetall NIOA Munitions - Maryborough Forge Facilitygateway.icn.org.au
(Edit: started building it in May 2020)
oldsigBuild starts on Maryborough forging plant – TIQ
Construction of the $60 million Rheinmetall NIOA Munitions (RNM) shell forging and manufacturing facility in Maryborough has begun, with early works commencing on site.
Initially to make ammo for F-35, but I doubt that will stop them ramping up for other munitions
oldsig
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Now if the ADF, or at least the individual services, would settle on common munitions calibres where possible and practical...
Granted it would likely take at least some time to implement, but I would rather not see Army units that field different small calibre cannon rounds like 25 mm and 30 mm... That sort of logistics train burden should be avoided unless there is a real benefit to the service for having different types in use across different vehicles, etc.
Takao
The Bunker Group
I think the ADF is about at the limit - although it would have been helpful to see the Armidales and Hobarts run Mk 44 Bushmasters to at least remove 25 mm.
Still leaves the intractable problem that we'll always be running at least 2 types of medium calibre rounds - 30x114 and 30x173. So the log issue will be with us until at least 2040ish.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
If one looks at the broader ADF, the RAN currently operates small calibre guns covering 20 mm, 25 mm, and 30 mm. Once both the Arafura-class OPV's and the Hunter-class FFG's come into service, that will add in a 40 mm, and another 30 mm gun which might, or then again might not, be compatible with existing 30 mm ammunition in use by the ADF. In addition to the different production and logistics trains involved, there is also the training and support for the guns themselves, both in terms of using them, as well as providing maintenance and support.
Commonality between different services IMO is somewhat less important than commonality within a service. In this instance, it would seem that the RAN is going to end up having multiple different types of small calibre guns which are fulfilling essentially the same role.
Why couldn't the RAN use Rheinmettall 30mm autocannon and then the ADF would only be stuck with two different 30mm autocannon as opposed to 3 if they run Mk-44 Bushmasters as well. Since they are investing in so many Rheinmettall 30mm autocannon fthe the CRV it would make sense.
I want to slit my wrists every time I see an ABC defence article. They are so negative. Move gardening Australia to Channel 7 and defund the ABC please.Not sure if there is anything in this ABC article about some concerns with the Boxer.
Concerns for fleet of armoured vehicles deemed overweight and unprotected from missile attack
An overweight weapons system is threatening to delay a multi-billion-dollar army project, prompting alarm across government, the military and defence industry.
Anyone have any information.
Regards S
Is this at all possible that the CRVs went through the selection process without anyone considering if they added spike and APS they would be "overweight?".
Does anyone make tyres in Australia any more? The answer is no. Pretty sure the last Truck and Car Tyres Manufacturer in Australia was Bridgestone Adelaide and that closed in 2010. So if the ninny that did this report had even rudimentary research capabilities he could replace with "Bespoke European Tyres" with "Bespoke Japanese Tyres", or "Bespoke Chinese Tyres" or "Bespoke American Tyres". He would probably not know that if his car gets a flat it will be fitted with a bespoke Tyre from somewhere over seas. He must think they are made just up the road from the Ultimo offices.
5x potentially:
Mk.30-2 ABM - 30x137mm. (Boxer CRV / Lynx).
Mk-44 Bushmasters - 30x173mm. (RAN Hunter Class, Hawkei Redback).
M230LF - 30x114mm. (Apache, possibly ground / vehicle employed as well).
Oerlikon KCB 30x173mm. (Huon Class).
Aden Mk4, 30x111mm. (Hawk Mk 127).
The ABC is hardly Robinson Crusoe when it comes to poor reporting around defence issues. You can take your pick on most mainstream media platforms. They will all more than likely come up short.
Takao
The Bunker Group
Mk 30-2 fires 30x 173 and is compatible with Mk 44 and (although anecdotal), the KCB.
I also know that the Aden Mk 4 is compatible with either the 30M781 (Tiger) or M230 (Apache), but I can't remember which.
So we only run 2 - 3 types of 30 mm ammo
Damnit! Forgot Tiger! That’s 6… For a while…
But I was simply counting numbers of separate 30mm guns in ADF service. There is some commonality in ammunition sizes, I agree. If not exactly ammunition types, as we are seeing with the current media hullabaloo with Boxer...