A26 - super sub?

[gf0012-aust]

It might be nice to develop a submerged launched SAM that can be deployed without giving away the location of the sub. It couldn't be fired from the tubes as that makes too much noise. What if they had a tube that could be unnlatched from the sub containing a VLS SAM. A time delay could be made from unlatching so the sub could put some distance b/w her and the tube. When the tube launches and gets the kill the other ASW platforms won't have a target except the empty tube. :idea2

already under development by a couple of nations. one is an ejection launch, the other is a swimmer.

 

[gf0012-aust]

What if the sub floated a mini floating sky search radar controlled by satellite ground based stations.

already under development. they're sonaboy sized emitters and are being designed to slave into the exsiting battlenet.

the RAN had a CTD approved about 3 years ago for a submersible mobile emitter. some of that development has recently included USN/ONR but I don't think its formally announced.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Don't forget that the Russian Kilo Class had a eight launcher for the SA-N-8 Gremelin or Gimlet

There's also the Polyphem and Iris-T developments. I think Polyphem has merged into Iris-T sub-launched AAW though.

Either way, attacking air assets seems like a hail mary response for the majority of instances. the last thing you want to do is let everyone know that there is a sub in the area - every man and his hound will be out searching.

 

[Big-E]

the last thing you want to do is let everyone know that there is a sub in the area - every man and his hound will be out searching.

Chances are if they're pinging they already know your about. Where exactly is another story. If you shoot one down from a platform based launcher your pretty much giving your position away.

 

[Wild Weasel]

But then again, you may be clearing datum by taking out the only eyes that have seen you. Change heading, dive deep, and open up for full turns. Or, perhaps, this may even be the chance to even the odds, by snap shooting a salvo or two of torpedoes at the nearest targets of opportunity, and then making a break at flank.
If a group of ASW ships were suddenly dashing towards the sub's last known position- they are probably not going to be streaming their tail, and therefore unable to hear the SSK maneuvering, and cranking up to max turns.

This may be lucky enough to escape, or to have caused the enemy greivous damage.

Or, the OPFOR has ASW missiles, tube-launched torpedos, and/or RBU's- and has enough of a firing solution to drop a torpedo right down on your head.
This is almost certain death for most conventional boats, due to their small size, and low top speed.

 

[Big-E]

But then again, you may be clearing datum by taking out the only eyes that have seen you. Change heading, dive deep, and open up for full turns. Or, perhaps, this may even be the chance to even the odds, by snap shooting a salvo or two of torpedoes at the nearest targets of opportunity, and then making a break at flank.
If a group of ASW ships were suddenly dashing towards the sub's last known position- they are probably not going to be streaming their tail, and therefore unable to hear the SSK maneuvering, and cranking up to max turns.

This may be lucky enough to escape, or to have caused the enemy greivous damage.

Or, the OPFOR has ASW missiles, tube-launched torpedos, and/or RBU's- and has enough of a firing solution to drop a torpedo right down on your head.
This is almost certain death for most conventional boats, due to their small size, and low top speed.

If this fleet has ASCROC they would just drop a torpedo 1 km shy of the helo's last known position and most likely the sub will be acquired.

If this fleet has data-links taking out the helo isn't going to be "clearing datum" it will confirm the snoopers suspicions of your track. All modern CICs have these tracks on the board. This fleet would have to be pretty substandard not to be able to place either a helo or ASROC on the last known location ASAP.

As you say the sub makes her break for it at flank speed you are in turn killing any chance she has of a stealthy getaway. If she runs at more than 4kts she is dead. An SSK doing emergency maneuvering can be heard tens of miles away. She would do better to rig for silent running and pull into the thermals.

 

[rattmuff]

If she runs at more than 4kts she is dead. An SSK doing emergency maneuvering can be heard tens of miles away. She would do better to rig for silent running and pull into the thermals.

Does this imply to the swedish ones too:?:

 

[Big-E]

Does this imply to the swedish ones too:?:

It applys even to Seawolfs give or take a few knots.

 

[Wild Weasel]

If this fleet has ASCROC they would just drop a torpedo 1 km shy of the helo's last known position and most likely the sub will be acquired.

If this fleet has data-links taking out the helo isn't going to be "clearing datum" it will confirm the snoopers suspicions of your track. All modern CICs have these tracks on the board. This fleet would have to be pretty substandard not to be able to place either a helo or ASROC on the last known location ASAP.

As you say the sub makes her break for it at flank speed you are in turn killing any chance she has of a stealthy getaway. If she runs at more than 4kts she is dead. An SSK doing emergency maneuvering can be heard tens of miles away. She would do better to rig for silent running and pull into the thermals.

Hey, I'm just playing Devil's advocate in this case. I've gotten away with it in simulations. ( H3 )

On occasion, I have played as a Kilo SSK, and have killed a lone ASW helo with an Igla. I just ripped off an SR-SAM, and dashed towards the bottom on a tangent course. I escaped because there weren't any other air assets nearby, and I was outside of ASROC range. If the US had continued to develop and produce the Sealance, it might've turned out differently.

On seperate occassions, I have also used a brace of torps BOL-fired into an incoming ASW SAG to break contact.

But on the face of it, I'd surmise that these are desperate attemps to avoid destruction, and it often ends in tragedy for the SSK skipper.

 

[Big-E]

Hey, I'm just playing Devil's advocate in this case. I've gotten away with it in simulations. ( H3 )

On occasion, I have played as a Kilo SSK, and have killed a lone ASW helo with an Igla. I just ripped off an SR-SAM, and dashed towards the bottom on a tangent course. I escaped because there weren't any other air assets nearby, and I was outside of ASROC range. If the US had continued to develop and produce the Sealance, it might've turned out differently.

On seperate occassions, I have also used a brace of torps BOL-fired into an incoming ASW SAG to break contact.

But on the face of it, I'd surmise that these are desperate attemps to avoid destruction, and it often ends in tragedy for the SSK skipper.

I'm wondering what kind of AI this simulation has? In scenerio 1, I as the US commander would have had more than one helo out looking for you and would task them to rescue and search grid over the downed helo, it would take a few minutes but your SSK at flank speed will still be easily detected. Expect a Mk 50 on your six.

In scenerio 2, I as US SAG would have to turn the ships around but you still have helos picking you up dropping Mk 50s.

Your better off not firing and rigging for silent running.

 

[Wild Weasel]

The AI was not great, I'll admit. But the other side, ( An ASW-heavy group cosisting of an Ocean-class LPH, and several smaller NATO escorts ) was equipped with a number of Sea Kings and Sea Lynx, and Merlin Helos.

There just wasn't an adequate number of ASW helo's on top of me at the time, and ASW missiles weren't an option either.

In the second scenario, the purpose of the torpedo attack was a desperate attempt to provide enough distraction for a damaged boomer to slink away. It just happened to have yeilded a number of lucky hits.

 

[marxist_command]

A26 is a new submarine under development by Kockums together with FMV(swedens defence material administration) and from my point of view it seems to be a very capable sub equipped with the latest technology you can get your hands on. They say it's based on the awesome A19(Gotland class) submarines.

A26 will feature such things as better hydrodynamical(?) shapes for better stealth capability, platform build-up in a floating rubber construction(same as Gotland but more evolved) for easier configurations and to protect the crew from all shockspectrums of a waterexplosion, all equippment mounted on rubber bags, a gigatic hatch in the bow for specops deployment and the final thing is very surprisingly a 25-30mm automatic cannon for self defence on the surface and periscopedepth.

The sub will also have several UUVs for minesearching, monitoring, mapping surroundings, scouting rivers/harbours, deploy sensors and deploy mines.
Of course a Stirling AIP engine will bring the sub forward and backword.
This sub are meant to travel 50% faster than the A19 on blue sea.

Basic facts
Deplacement: 1400 tones
Crew: 17-31
Cargo: flexible
Speed transit: 1.5V

http://www.nti.org/db/submarines/sweden/index.html
http://www.fmv.se/upload/Bilder%20och%20dokument/Publikationer/Informationsmaterial/PROTEC/protec01_06.pdf
the last one is in swedish but it has some nice illustrations and pictures.

Interesting, what about the sound?is it noisy?

 

[rattmuff]

Interesting, what about the sound?is it noisy?

This sub will be more silent than the Gotland class. USN is having problems finding HMS Gotland.

 

[Big-E]

This sub will be more silent than the Gotland class. USN is having problems finding HMS Gotland.

Did we lose it? Oh well I guess you won't be getting it back after the lease. :hehe

 

[rattmuff]

hehe...

 

[Max_Headroom]

What if the sub floated a mini floating sky search radar controlled by satellite ground based stations. She could float up several tubes of SAMS and have the data relayed to the stations. In effect a SAM net has been floated to the surface just waiting for victims to fall pray.:lol3

Its a idea that has been pursued by Germany for quite some time.
One solution advocated by DE navy industry is the "Tripple M".

http://maschinenbau.gabler-luebeck.de/de/entwicklungen/eigenschutz/index.html

Another solution was Polyphem with a solid rocket engine rather than a gasturbine & a 30 km optical fibre.

 

[Awang se]

An IR guided SAM has to be locked-on before launch (like the "growl" an AIM-7 makes), after which it guides itself. The Israelis tried to get around this by interfacing Blowpipe with the periscope; apparently it didn't work too well.

there's suppose to be several types of IR missile that can acquire target on it's own. the new generation IR missiles can be launce before lock. all the shooter did is to point the missiles to the general direction of the enemy aircaft and launch it.

Ever heard of Helmet mounted weapon cueing system? that's one examples of launch before lock. the cueing system told the missile where the target is. then the pilot launch the missile and the missile will turn to the direction given by the cueing system. then it will activate it seekers and seek any IR source that match the tracking parameters.

 

[Awang se]

my suggestion is to use a floating tube with IR missile inside. the sub will release the tube and it will floating up to the surface. when it hit the surface only forward part of the tube which contain the IR seekers wil be visible above waters. the missile will activate it seekers and wait. once a heat source past through it's sight envelope it will lock on to the heat source and launch itself out of the tube and home in to the heat source (in this case i hope the heat source will be an ASW aircraft)

 

[rattmuff]

Uhm, why do this kind of sub need such missles? If the enemy has sophisticated sensors the sub will be detected if launching a tube? It's main use is too be a intelligence node. That is, entering a highly hostile area and remain there for a few weeks to gather all kinds of data, undetected.

 

[Awang se]

yes i agree with you ratmuff. but the capability to engage aircraft from deep underwater wil be one hell of an enhancement to sub capability. no longer we can say that submarine is helpless against ASW aircraft and it will greatly limit the ASW aircraft operation.