Israel: Golan Heights Up for Grabs?

[.pt]

Yep coffee and pasta are the main reasons in choosing between allied garrisons!!

Anyway, despite being better armed, i don´t see how can you avoid being hit by israeli artillery, by mistake or not, or being shot at by Hizbollah missiles, again, by mistake or not. These acts and harrassment by both sides will take it´s toll on UN troops. And i just don´t see the Italian, or any other contigent making an artillery duell with the Israelis or shooting down aircraft, or raiding Hizbollah positions. The will won´t be there, despite the capability.
.pt

 

[merocaine]

You can't call the Lebanon thing a war.
It was an operation which didn't achieved much less of its goals and caused much more casualties than expected.

I do not view it as a war, but more of a skirmish to fight terrorists

is that a joke!!??

what do you call an invasion, thousands of air strikes, thousands of caulties, scores of wreaked tanks, hundreds of dead soldiers, and 4000+ missile strikes during a 34 day period, and the almost complete destruction of the civil infrstuture of a country........

Cause there was no decleation of war, winston churchill, robert e lee, charge of the light brigade, dunkirk/ battle of the bulge ect ect it was'ent a war?
Not all wars are total dude, some involve minor border adjustments, are fought for honour, or for cash.
When you have troops pouring over a border its called a war, not a thing.

 

[Waylander]

It was in fact a military operation.
What would you call an operation were first pure air strikes and later a limited ground operation to fight not more than a division of light infantry buried into the Lebanon.
This light infantry had no offensive capabilities despite of small raids and Khazam rockets.
This is not a war. This was a big military operation but still limited.

 

[.pt]

Waylander, i beg to difer.
It was a war. a non declared, not recognised war, but still it was a war, however small. not all wars need to be like WWII. If the military operation is small or big, doesn´t matter. Hell, even war on terror is mostly non military, but intelligence, and still it´s a war...waged at home, or overseas, but it´s a war...or conflict. Perhap it´s not a major war, but it´s a war.
.pt

 

[Waylander]

Ok, if you define war like that it is ok. I normally would agree you.

But he claimed that Israel lost a war.
And it looked like he meant that they lost a big war. The discussion was about the military capabilities of Israel and that they would loose a war if it would go against Syria now.
And I talked about a war like it would be against Syria.

 

[.pt]

Perhaps we should say Israel lost a battle, or didn´t fully achieve it ´s objectives. For me this is only the last episode on a ongoing war of 20+ years.
Next episodes coming up, starring UNIFIL and the UN with all new star, The new UN sec general. stay tuned.
.pt

 

[Waylander]

This is a statement I agree with.
A good agreement.

 

[icelord]

A battle it is, so we go back to Israel having never lost a war
I wonder if the little bloke from South Korea will be a bit more leniant for UN troops when on.... operations(i was gunna say warzone allowing them greater responsability and a strone ROE, which is from my understanding quite weak, anyone got a link for a copy?
I just wonder if the next episodes will be rating high enough to get cancelled?

 

[eckherl]

A battle it is, so we go back to Israel having never lost a war
I wonder if the little bloke from South Korea will be a bit more leniant for UN troops when on.... operations(i was gunna say warzone allowing them greater responsability and a strone ROE, which is from my understanding quite weak, anyone got a link for a copy?
I just wonder if the next episodes will be rating high enough to get cancelled?

I think that he may surprise us, when South Koreans get pissed look out, they have very bad tempers, I know because I am married to one.:lul
Hopefully Isreal will chalk this up as a expensive learning experience and learn from their mistakes. What hurts you can only make you stronger.

 

[icelord]

I think that he may surprise us, when South Koreans get pissed look out, they have very bad tempers, I know because I am married to one.:lul
.

nfloorl:

 

[Aussie Digger]

Perhaps we should say Israel lost a battle, or didn´t fully achieve it ´s objectives. For me this is only the last episode on a ongoing war of 20+ years.
Next episodes coming up, starring UNIFIL and the UN with all new star, The new UN sec general. stay tuned.
.pt

I would probably say that Israel won the battle, but not by anywhere near as much as they expected to.

Israel got caught short with a couple of surprises, but Hizbollah STILL got flattened for it's troubles...

 

[merocaine]

Israel got caught short with a couple of surprises, but Hizbollah STILL got flattened for it's troubles...

read the news, todays news hezzbullah are on the verge of gaining veto power over the Lebonese goverment, giving them effective control of the state.....
They were in the decline before the war.
Body counts dont decide assymetrical warfare, the only thing that got flattened during the war was the Lebonese state. Israel drew the engagement on the ground, and lost the peace.

 

[icelord]

Its true, if anything, the battle gave Hizbollah more support from the people, with their money being thrown around to re-build projects for the people, with the govt. unable to pay for some areas at all.

 

[merocaine]

NEWS FLASH

Lebenese industry minister has been assasinated, the ruling colaition in now in a miniority, hezzbullah now has effective veto power..... this is how civil war starts.
The goverment is blaming syria, only because there terrified of blaming hezzbullah.

 

[merocaine]

Hezzbullah are turning out for peaceful demos in an effort to topple the Leb goverment, theres not much chance of them being peaceful now. If there supporters are attacked Hezzbullah will have an excuse to use force to restore order, since the state will be incapable of doing so.
watch this space......

If things turn out as bad as they could, iran and syria will have a complient state on Israel's doorstep. Anyone taking bets on the war restarting in the next year?

 

[contedicavour]

Hezzbullah are turning out for peaceful demos in an effort to topple the Leb goverment, theres not much chance of them being peaceful now. If there supporters are attacked Hezzbullah will have an excuse to use force to restore order, since the state will be incapable of doing so.
watch this space......

If things turn out as bad as they could, iran and syria will have a complient state on Israel's doorstep. Anyone taking bets on the war restarting in the next year?

Unfortunately it's even likely that a civil war could erupt again between Christian Maronites and Sunnis on one side and Shi'ites on the other (with the odd group of the Christian general Aoud who bizarrely sides with the Shi'ites).
What a mess that country is...
I'm worried for our mech brigade stationed in southern lebanon !

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

That mech brigade is probably one of the two most powerful units in Lebanon - the other one being the French brigade.

 

[contedicavour]

That mech brigade is probably one of the two most powerful units in Lebanon - the other one being the French brigade.

It is, and if reinforced with Ariete MBT and Mangusta CBT attack helos it could easily defend itself from any of the warring parties. However the ROEs are vague (let's say strictly defensive, so I don't see how you could use M109Ls for instance shooting at targets 24km away), and the unit is stretched along a wide territory from the sea towards half of the old UNIFIL area. The French mech brigade takes over from there until the Syrian border.

cheers

 

[.pt]

If things take a turn to the bad, those Italian and French Brigades can always regroup tighter and at least establish a defensive perimeter. If you get caught on some mean civilian war, Iraqui style, all those heavy weapons won´t save you..or us.
.pt

 

[eckherl]

If things take a turn to the bad, those Italian and French Brigades can always regroup tighter and at least establish a defensive perimeter. If you get caught on some mean civilian war, Iraqui style, all those heavy weapons won´t save you..or us.
.pt

Everyone will steer way clear of these two brigades, if they are smart enough they will.