What is your point - so what if Isreal had assistance from us, who was giving the Egyptians assistance for their Airforce and Air defence systems. Bottom line Egypt got their rear ends handed to them.
Israel: Golan Heights Up for Grabs?
- Thread starter watchman
- Start date
Hell, let ´s not forget without Lajes airbase no resuply at those levels!
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And yes, they´ve come a long way. They are not nearly as dependent on Us or other countries suply of military equipment as they were at the time. Look at light weapons,ammunitions, armor, artilery, high tech systems, etc.
I guess that was part of eckherls point. They just have one of the world´s finest defense industry.
.pt
: And yes, they´ve come a long way. They are not nearly as dependent on Us or other countries suply of military equipment as they were at the time. Look at light weapons,ammunitions, armor, artilery, high tech systems, etc.
I guess that was part of eckherls point. They just have one of the world´s finest defense industry.
.pt
radiosilence
jints
Operation Nickel Grass was the deciding factor in the war.
radiosilence
jints
you are correct portugal was the only european country that was willing to allow our C-141s and C-5 transport aircraft to land and refuel on their way to resupply israel.
i wouldn't say that since their airforce is primarily based on US fighters/ helicopters. they are still are the largest recipient of US military aid. they have access to a lot of US technologies etc.
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Yes, well at the time we did it because you cornered us..and we suffered dearly since we were specially treated along you in the ensuing oil embargo. Lucky we still had Angolas oil, albeit at small amounts.
And yes Operation nickel grass was really the turning point. The soviets tried also to resuply their allies, but their effort wasn´t as..say, spirited as US one.
Israel, is very much one of the few countries in the world almost independent in suplying thier military, Airforce and Navy aside. In terms of Landforces, they pretty much build everything themselves. Ok with a lot of US assistance and financing, but still it´s locally done and with good results.
Any way they fared well against overwhelming odds in numbers and equipment.
.pt
And yes Operation nickel grass was really the turning point. The soviets tried also to resuply their allies, but their effort wasn´t as..say, spirited as US one.
Israel, is very much one of the few countries in the world almost independent in suplying thier military, Airforce and Navy aside. In terms of Landforces, they pretty much build everything themselves. Ok with a lot of US assistance and financing, but still it´s locally done and with good results.
Any way they fared well against overwhelming odds in numbers and equipment.
.pt
@eckherl
Every higher soldier was checked for relations to the socialist party or the intelligence services and every higher officer than major was kicked out. Remaining officers were downgraded (From Major to Captain, etc).
The rest remained intact and was absorbed into existing or newly formed units.
Most of the NVA personal later retired douring the trandformation which made a 250.000 men army out of a 700.000 men army.
Every higher soldier was checked for relations to the socialist party or the intelligence services and every higher officer than major was kicked out. Remaining officers were downgraded (From Major to Captain, etc).
The rest remained intact and was absorbed into existing or newly formed units.
Most of the NVA personal later retired douring the trandformation which made a 250.000 men army out of a 700.000 men army.
Thanks for the information.
Ibizan Hound
Banned Member
Egypt beat the mess out of Israel before and so have other forces. The Israelis call mere politics a win.
On what grounds would you deem that they lost.Lebabnon, 2006
they did not get their men back, did not stop Hezbollah from growing, have not destroyed the terrorist group from expanding in the south, and to top it all off, some idiots decided that a group of International troops should now get front row seats to Hezbollahs rebuilding.
Even the Israelis concede that it didn't work out as planned, and in fairness, the really got their arses handed to them on a plate, with the Treaty as a dessert.
Even the Israelis concede that it didn't work out as planned, and in fairness, the really got their arses handed to them on a plate, with the Treaty as a dessert.
I do not view it as a war, but more of a skirmish to fight terrorists, plus they were under heavy pressure by the international world to get out of there.
But you are correct, they under estimated Hezbollahs capibilities and got their rear ends handed to them, they also have set the stage for further attacks on their country.
Totally agree,and if the world had butted out, they could have done more, rather then a 34day skirmish. There is no doubt that the longer it lasted, the more casualties, but also, the better the control by israel in the south. This was a media war worse then Iraq. The media was a pawn to Hezbollah, and the world lapped it up. Every time Israel bombed somewhere, a Rep. for Hez would show them around, giving his account, his view.
Yet the missiles into Israel itself didn't count for nothing compared to a falling building in Beirut, even if it was damaged beyond the missiles capabilities, the extra "defensive" Ammo helped
Really, i blame the media for Israels loss, as would the IDF Commanders, their statergy may have back fired at times, but when you put restrictions on a warzone, it makes the whole scenario pointless.
Thats perhaps the biggest advantage for Aussie troops around the world, the reason we never hear about their missions, is that they don't allow media scrutiny to hamper them, no embeds, no problems, although it does little for those wanting to hear something at home, it is for the best, its perhaps something Israel would truely love to get next time round.
What it worrying is that the Foreign troops there don't even go outside of their base at night to patrol, and that Lebanese troops are the same, refusing daylight patrols in some areas, it won't be too long before israels gets fed up with this and heads back in.
Yet the missiles into Israel itself didn't count for nothing compared to a falling building in Beirut, even if it was damaged beyond the missiles capabilities, the extra "defensive" Ammo helped
Really, i blame the media for Israels loss, as would the IDF Commanders, their statergy may have back fired at times, but when you put restrictions on a warzone, it makes the whole scenario pointless.
Thats perhaps the biggest advantage for Aussie troops around the world, the reason we never hear about their missions, is that they don't allow media scrutiny to hamper them, no embeds, no problems, although it does little for those wanting to hear something at home, it is for the best, its perhaps something Israel would truely love to get next time round.
What it worrying is that the Foreign troops there don't even go outside of their base at night to patrol, and that Lebanese troops are the same, refusing daylight patrols in some areas, it won't be too long before israels gets fed up with this and heads back in.
We are getting off topic, but....
What is hapening is what many of us predicted...The internacional force in Lebanon, won´t do anything worthwhile to control either Hezbollahs movements or the Israelis. If this is due to RoE, lack of adequate equipment,lack of will to go out there and patrol, or whatever, i don´t know, but when Hezbollah starts to really harass Israelis again, guess who will be standing in the middle, liable to take a hell of a pounding?? Deja vu, anyone?
Won´t European countries learn their lesson, before casualties start to pile?
I sincerely hope this won´t happen, because, even my country has a small detachment out there.
.pt
What is hapening is what many of us predicted...The internacional force in Lebanon, won´t do anything worthwhile to control either Hezbollahs movements or the Israelis. If this is due to RoE, lack of adequate equipment,lack of will to go out there and patrol, or whatever, i don´t know, but when Hezbollah starts to really harass Israelis again, guess who will be standing in the middle, liable to take a hell of a pounding?? Deja vu, anyone?
Won´t European countries learn their lesson, before casualties start to pile?
I sincerely hope this won´t happen, because, even my country has a small detachment out there.
.pt
fraid not, they will be stuck in the middle, and they can't do anything about it.
The main reason is that if they go on patrol, there is nothing they can do if they see something, patrolling means bugger all. There is no real set mandate on force or ROE if attacked, its more a big PR stunt for the UN, show the world your trying, when really your not. Hope your countries troops don't get caught up in the middle, they are only doing their job with the gloves on.
The main reason is that if they go on patrol, there is nothing they can do if they see something, patrolling means bugger all. There is no real set mandate on force or ROE if attacked, its more a big PR stunt for the UN, show the world your trying, when really your not. Hope your countries troops don't get caught up in the middle, they are only doing their job with the gloves on.
Hopefully they won´t get mauled. It´s only a 140 men engineering detachment (not front line troops), and they ´ll be garrisoned with some Italian unit. This is no coincidence, they´re the only guys, besides us, that can make a decent expresso coffee
But the other contigents, specially the Italians and French ( the biggest in numbers, i think) will be in trouble.
.pt
But the other contigents, specially the Italians and French ( the biggest in numbers, i think) will be in trouble.
.pt
contedicavour
New Member
Oh my, after reading your post I think I'll go make myself some ristrettoHopefully they won´t get mauled. It´s only a 140 men engineering detachment (not front line troops), and they ´ll be garrisoned with some Italian unit. This is no coincidence, they´re the only guys, besides us, that can make a decent expresso coffee
But the other contigents, specially the Italians and French ( the biggest in numbers, i think) will be in trouble.
.pt
Jokes apart, our contingent is pretty heavily armed this time : Centauro 8x8 with 105mm main gun, Puma 6x6 armoured APCs, VTLM Iveco (our version of Hummvees), and M109L detachment. Discussion is still ongoing whether to send Ariete MBTs (in the meanwhile France has sent some Leclerc MBTs).
In case of trouble air cover can reach Lebanon in less than 3 hours from our Gioia del Colle or Grottaglie airbases.
What is missing is some serious SAMs (Hawk PIP or Spada based on Aspide-2000, since Aster-30s aren't operational yet). However we aren't there to shoot down IDF jets... even if the repeated violations of UN resolution and the aggressive behaviour of IDF pilots would be worth a lesson.
cheers
You can't call the Lebanon thing a war.
It was an operation which didn't achieved much less of its goals and caused much more casualties than expected.
It is not like one or more countries clashed with Israel and the IDF were wiped out and ended up totally crushed and unable to perform any serious operations.
This would have been a lost war.
Egypt was near to this in the past but for sure not the Lebanon conflict.
It was an operation which didn't achieved much less of its goals and caused much more casualties than expected.
It is not like one or more countries clashed with Israel and the IDF were wiped out and ended up totally crushed and unable to perform any serious operations.
This would have been a lost war.
Egypt was near to this in the past but for sure not the Lebanon conflict.