New Zealand Army

K

kiwi in exile

Well-Known Member
6.5mm creedmore in LMT DMRs in UK/US

On of the plusses in the LMT MARS/DMR platform operated by the NZDF is that the rifles calibre can be changed by a quick barrel change by the operator. IE their 7.62 DMR can be rechambered to 6.5 creedmore, the 5.56 MARS-L can be rerolled to the 300 blackout rounds that were popuiar on gun tube a while back.

Im bringing this up here because the UK has recently done this with some of their LMT 7.62 DMRs (L129a1)- swapping for 6.6 creedmore (L129a2). and the US SOCCOM has introduced as 7.62/6.5mm Mid range Gas Gun as a DMR/sniper support/assault rifle.

6.5 mm Creedmore has better accuracy at longer rangers over 7.62. Given this performance advantage and the fact that our friends are going in this direction I would hope that at least the NZSAS, ideally the army as well had brought a few 6.6 barrels (of varying lengths) and a couple of boxes of ammo, and were having a play.
 
K

kiwi in exile

Well-Known Member
New Zealand LMT Contract Infantry and Special Forces Rifles

Informative YT vid re the differences between the standard NZDF army* rifles and thiose used by the NZSAS.

Standard NZ rifle has a 16 inch barrel
Specops rifle has 14.5 inch barrel with exdended handguard.
Navy and RNZAF rifles have the 14 inch barrell with the standary CQB length handquard/upper reciever.

When the rifles were initally introduced the PR stated that there were 18 inch barrels acquired as well but i have no further info on this

additionally, June APDR is reporting
Lockheed Martin opened their GMLRS (guided multiple launch rocket system) assembly factory on
5 December at Port Wakefield in South Australia last year and since then work has been going to schedule.
Click to expand...
While in not sure HIMARS/GMLRS is the right thing for us I do believe we need to look at ranged NLOS precision fires beyond our 105mms.
HIMARS should be considered at least. Pus local(ish) manufacturing
 
W

Warhawk

Member
kiwi in exile said:
New Zealand LMT Contract Infantry and Special Forces Rifles

Informative YT vid re the differences between the standard NZDF army* rifles and thiose used by the NZSAS.

Standard NZ rifle has a 16 inch barrel
Specops rifle has 14.5 inch barrel with exdended handguard.
Navy and RNZAF rifles have the 14 inch barrell with the standary CQB length handquard/upper reciever.

When the rifles were initally introduced the PR stated that there were 18 inch barrels acquired as well but i have no further info on this

additionally, June APDR is reporting


While in not sure HIMARS/GMLRS is the right thing for us I do believe we need to look at ranged NLOS precision fires beyond our 105mms.
HIMARS should be considered at least. Pus local(ish) manufacturing
Click to expand...
NZ army artillery needs a method to shoot then scoot in modern warfare (Ukraine war good example).
 
Cadredave

Cadredave

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Warhawk said:
NZ army artillery needs a method to shoot then scoot in modern warfare (Ukraine war good example).
Click to expand...
Ukraine are very good at using towed L119 Light Guns as well you just dont hear about it in Western MSM there is a time & place to use the best tool available and tbh I dont see to many places in the Pacific where a shoot & scoot capability is required, if we are going to get something then go HIMARS
 
W

Warhawk

Member
Interesting with Defence minister announcement about long range strike drones .I wonder what they call long range ? defination is (1000km ) above this will be year's away takes time to develop and manufacture from scratch. What NZ needs is now the threat level moved way north and we have nothing to defend NZ with. Even if we buy Harpoons for P-8A with 100km+ still puts aircraft in harm's way . NZ army should jump on the bandwagon with UK and purchase RCH 155mm SP guns. We need look Air Defence means to defend our Bases and infrastructure can't just have 2 frigates for Air Defence.
 
A

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Warhawk said:
Interesting with Defence minister announcement about long range strike drones .I wonder what they call long range ? defination is (1000km ) above this will be year's away takes time to develop and manufacture from scratch. What NZ needs is now the threat level moved way north and we have nothing to defend NZ with. Even if we buy Harpoons for P-8A with 100km+ still puts aircraft in harm's way . NZ army should jump on the bandwagon with UK and purchase RCH 155mm SP guns. We need look Air Defence means to defend our Bases and infrastructure can't just have 2 frigates for Air Defence.
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What?
 
K

kiwi in exile

Well-Known Member
Mr doull is again arguing that we are moving far to slow on drones. Link

I agree. And I agree that this failure is a leadership failure to recognize the problem and move forward to addressing it. Also agree that our institutions and procurement structures are part of the problem.

Recommend you read the article.

There was a nato exercise where a small Ukrainian drone team destroyed a nato armoured column. Counter UAV is perhaps more of a priority than offensive UAV
 
N

Nudge

New Member
kiwi in exile said:
Mr doull is again arguing that we are moving far to slow on drones. Link

I agree. And I agree that this failure is a leadership failure to recognize the problem and move forward to addressing it. Also agree that our institutions and procurement structures are part of the problem.

Recommend you read the article.

There was a nato exercise where a small Ukrainian drone team destroyed a nato armoured column. Counter UAV is perhaps more of a priority than offensive UAV
Click to expand...
Not only for Armies but I'd also say for security elements including reserves tasked with defending Airbases, naval bases, ports and other infrastructure domestically.

I'm no expert.... but would not legislation also need be addressed that allow forces (Aust in my thinking here, maybe the same for NZ?) domestically to have weapons loaded (short of the whole nation being declared an operational zone/state of war or whatever the current setting are) and authorised to use active kinetic and electronic means as well as passive means to neutralise any drone threat.

I heard talkback radio calling for the Army to 'just shoot them down' when there was a report of nefarious drones surveilling bases. Not so simple!
 
W

Warhawk

Member
Nudge said:
Not only for Armies but I'd also say for security elements including reserves tasked with defending Airbases, naval bases, ports and other infrastructure domestically.

I'm no expert.... but would not legislation also need be addressed that allow forces (Aust in my thinking here, maybe the same for NZ?) domestically to have weapons loaded (short of the whole nation being declared an operational zone/state of war or whatever the current setting are) and authorised to use active kinetic and electronic means as well as passive means to neutralise any drone threat.

I heard talkback radio calling for the Army to 'just shoot them down' when there was a report of nefarious drones surveilling bases. Not so simple!
Click to expand...

I Agree Drones not the only field we are slow moving. Feel sorry for Chris getting the boot .Chris was the right person with his background.Paul will struggle with extra load and leading up to Election. They should have moved Paul's Portfolio to Minster outside cabinet Defence and Security should be prime Focus in this environment.
 
recce.k1

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
2nd/1st Battalion appears to be leading the drone system training and development for the Army, in a coordinated effort with the ADF to strengthen interoperability.
The course content draws from training delivered by the Australian Army’s Land Combat College and is supported by Australian instructors. This integrated effort strengthens interoperability between the New Zealand and Australian Armies and contributes to the ongoing objectives of Plan ANZAC.
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www.nzdf.mil.nz

New Zealand Army advancing short-range drone capability with new course

The New Zealand Army is building its First Person View (FPV) drone capability with a new specialist course.
www.nzdf.mil.nz www.nzdf.mil.nz
No doubt lethality (Mr Doull's concern) will follow.

Anyhoo NZ Army is also acquiring the Carl-Gustav M4 variant according to Saab.

Defense Here (Turkey) reports:
Saab has secured an order from the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) for its Carl-Gustaf M4 multi-role weapon system, marking New Zealand’s transition to the latest version of the Carl-Gustaf family.

New Zealand has used earlier versions of the Carl-Gustaf system for years. The new procurement includes man-portable M4 weapon systems as well as training and simulation capabilities for New Zealand forces.

The Carl-Gustaf M4 is a lighter and more compact version of the weapon. It weighs less than 7 kilograms and has an overall length of less than 1 meter, according to Saab.

The system is designed to work with advanced sights and programmable ammunition while retaining compatibility with legacy 84 mm Carl-Gustaf ammunition. An integrated fired-round counter is also intended to support maintenance and logistics management.

The procurement also places New Zealand alongside Australia, which has previously ordered the Carl-Gustaf M4 and associated Saab fire-control equipment.
Click to expand...
 
Cadredave

Cadredave

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
recce.k1 said:
2nd/1st Battalion appears to be leading the drone system training and development for the Army, in a coordinated effort with the ADF to strengthen interoperability.

www.nzdf.mil.nz

New Zealand Army advancing short-range drone capability with new course

The New Zealand Army is building its First Person View (FPV) drone capability with a new specialist course.
www.nzdf.mil.nz www.nzdf.mil.nz
No doubt lethality (Mr Doull's concern) will follow.

Anyhoo NZ Army is also acquiring the Carl-Gustav M4 variant according to Saab.

Defense Here (Turkey) reports:
Click to expand...
M4 is such a awesome development of the M3 about time they updated to the next Gen MRAAW
 
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