Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions

@assail

Here's the CBC's take on Junior's no-show. No mention about by elections. The concern about NAFTA makes sense for both Canada and Mexico. TPP won't make up for the collapse of NAFTA (at least anytime soon) for either country.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-mexico-tpp-1.4399224

John Newman said:

John,

Here's a more detailed report from DefenseNews:

https://www.defensenews.com/digital...the-sooner-the-better-on-fighter-acquisition/

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Like the other articles I have seen, only Mike Hood talking points. No confirmation from DND or pollies. Maybe he is trying the Admiral Norman approach (i.e. Asterix controversy) to embarrass the government into action. If so, hopefully a better career outcome for Hood. Regardless of the timeline, the real interesting matter will be how the tender is written up.

Preceptor said:

Notice to all. Please confine discussion to the thread topic, in this case the RCAF, and not politics apart from any that have a direct bearing on a defense matter. Procurement decisions are an example of areas where discussing the politics of the decision can within the bounds. General discussion of politics, politicians, or similar matters aren't appropriate here at DefenceTalk.
-Preceptor

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I agree that politics should be left out of these discussions, but I would point to an obvious lack of bipartisanship with various Canadian governments that has led to what I could only describe as a disastrous defence procurement policy.

The difficulties of bipartisanship | Australian Naval Institute

A lack of bipartisanship is a little misleading. Both major parties will throw defence under the bus when it suits their political priorities, the Liberals are just more obvious when they do it. (junior brings it to a new level). As I have said many times, it is the electorate that makes this possible in the end.

An additional Ottawa Citizen article expanding on what Mike Hood said in Dubai. As for interoperability, yes it might be a disadvantage but the price of either the Typhoon or Rafale is a bigger obstacle IMO.

Will European fighter jets be at a disadvantage in upcoming Canadian competition? | Ottawa Citizen

Daily Defence News is reporting that according to Lt. Gen Mike Hood “the official search for the fifth generation fighter is expected to start in 2019” with the selection to be finalised by 2021.

The article again cites the possibility of acquiring ex Australian F/A 18 to keep the RCAF fleet operational.

How far down the road is it possible to kick this can before a decision is made? And if there is some validity to the ‘deferral’ to even begin the search are there and real new 5th gen aircraft in development or is this just simply some a way of pushing the issue beyond the next election?

pgclift said:

Daily Defence News is reporting that according to Lt. Gen Mike Hood “the official search for the fifth generation fighter is expected to start in 2019” with the selection to be finalised by 2021.

The article again cites the possibility of acquiring ex Australian F/A 18 to keep the RCAF fleet operational.

How far down the road is it possible to kick this can before a decision is made? And if there is some validity to the ‘deferral’ to even begin the search are there and real new 5th gen aircraft in development or is this just simply some a way of pushing the issue beyond the next election?

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Good to see Canada is prepared for the deteriorating global security situation. I look forward to them operating their first 5th gen aircraft in 2020, the 1984 F-18A with 100,000 hrs on the clock.

I think Canada acquiring the Aussie F-18 is a red herring and is likely to happen as Merkle giving Trump a backrub. Why would the US allow its own trade war to be circumvented by its own products, which it still retains rights to, to allow Canada to further stuff up global F-35 procurement, further derail the F-35 program, further make a mockery of the F-35 workshare, defund its military, further fall behind in capability?
On top of that, those aircraft could be going to a power that would really appreciate an improvement in capability, like say Malaysia, who also operates F-18's, has a security relationship with Australia and is not currently in a trade war with the US and is on the edge of arc of instability.

But if not Malaysia, it could be one of a dozen nations, all of which would be better for the US and global security, than Canada. Japan, South Korea, Pakistan, India, Philippines, Indonesia, Spain, Kuwait, Finland, Switzerland, Poland, Thailand the list keeps going.

I haven't one convincing argument why Canada would get them above everyone else. Or why the US wouldn't break wing spars rather than give them to Canada.

Its insane. You might as well postulate that Canada expects to get F-18's from the USN active airwings. Or inactive F-22's will be transferred to Canada until a decision is made.

If they put it off for long enough, the last Canadian Hornet will have been retired due to cracks and after a few months, they can say "well, no need, we've managed without fixed wing aircraft for this long..."

It's utterly bonkers.

StobieWan said:

If they put it off for long enough, the last Canadian Hornet will have been retired due to cracks and after a few months, they can say "well, no need, we've managed without fixed wing aircraft for this long...".

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Procrastinating long enough may very well be the plan to convince our pathetic electorate that Canada doesn't need fast jets thus allowing him more money to waste on multiculturalism and other assorted socialist $hit.:mad2

John Fedup said:

Procrastinating long enough may very well be the plan to convince our pathetic electorate that Canada doesn't need fast jets thus allowing him more money to waste on multiculturalism and other assorted socialist $hit.:mad2

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That would mean the end of NORAD?

Political shit sandwich.

The end of NORAD, given our capabilities, it is almost at an end anyway. If NAFTA falls apart, it will be easier for junior to bug out on all sorts of defence commitments except for UN missions where he can impress the bleeding heart whiners here.

The RCAF's stunning progress towards obtaining a new UAV capability or should that be stunned. I guess a name change will allow future updates about this program to look better as the start date for RPAS will be Nov 2017! Only in Canada

RCAF drone project gets new name but proposed purchase still being studied after more than a decade | Ottawa Citizen

So i found this article this morning. It seems well if this article can believed anyway that our Canadian friends are indeed going after our old Hornet fleet.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/12/05/canada-to-kill-boeing-super-hornet-deal/

weegee said:

So i found this article this morning. It seems well if this article can believed anyway that our Canadian friends are indeed going after our old Hornet fleet.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/12/05/canada-to-kill-boeing-super-hornet-deal/

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Canada scraps plan to buy Boeing fighters and will go with used Australian F-18s: sources | National Post

The main-stream media is now reporting on it as well, I rather Canada not go about doing this. It reads like a sad comedy but it is all to real.

I would much rather see Canada do a small block buy of the F-35 (maybe 18-24) and wait out see what they turn out to be. In the near to mid future keep the CF-18 as a continental defence aircraft, while using the F-35 for overseas needs. If the F-35 works buy in full. If not invest in a fifth generation program other than a USA one, like South Korea or Japan.

Is this ideally no, is this even realistic probably not; however anything is better than buying used air-frames of a thirty year old fleet to keep a forty year old one going another ten years.

J_Can said:

Canada scraps plan to buy Boeing fighters and will go with used Australian F-18s: sources | National Post

The main-stream media is now reporting on it as well, I rather Canada not go about doing this. It reads like a sad comedy but it is all to real.

I would much rather see Canada do a small block buy of the F-35 (maybe 18-24) and wait out see what they turn out to be. In the near to mid future keep the CF-18 as a continental defence aircraft, while using the F-35 for overseas needs. If the F-35 works buy in full. If not invest in a fifth generation program other than a USA one, like South Korea or Japan.

Is this ideally no, is this even realistic probably not; however anything is better than buying used air-frames of a thirty year old fleet to keep a forty year old one going another ten years.

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Just one little problem with this little mess Canada (Junior) have gotten themselves in with this, is although they are current operators of the F/A-18, any potential sale by Australia to Canada would still need to be cleared by the US

Good luck with that

Cheers

aussienscale said:

Just one little problem with this little mess Canada (Junior) have gotten themselves in with this, is although they are current operators of the F/A-18, any potential sale by Australia to Canada would still need to be cleared by the US

Good luck with that

Cheers

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Not necessarily. Canada is a bit of a special case when it comes to ITARS and FMS. When I was reading through the relevant sections of the US Code, I recall seeing that Canada had some specific exemptions. I suspect that is due at least in part to the volume of back and forth defence manufacturing.

Todjaeger said:

Not necessarily. Canada is a bit of a special case when it comes to ITARS and FMS. When I was reading through the relevant sections of the US Code, I recall seeing that Canada had some specific exemptions. I suspect that is due at least in part to the volume of back and forth defence manufacturing.

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If that is the case they may well be looking at the Aussie Superhornets sometime in the next decade or so.

Really though ... the RAAF Hornets are probably just as clapped out as the Canadian aircraft. It will cost a fortune to keep these aircraft operational for any period of time.

Canada just needs to forget this nonsense and just buy a batch of F-35s.

hauritz said:

Canada just needs to forget this nonsense and just buy a batch of F-35s.

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Not very likely as our brain-dead electorate will give our POS junior a second mandate in 2019.:mad2

Todjaeger said:

Not necessarily. Canada is a bit of a special case when it comes to ITARS and FMS. When I was reading through the relevant sections of the US Code, I recall seeing that Canada had some specific exemptions. I suspect that is due at least in part to the volume of back and forth defence manufacturing.

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True but I can see this changing once the NAFTA negotiations fall apart. If the US were to ban the the sale I honestly would be uncertain as to the fallout. Junior would be forced to accelerate the fast jet replacement if he wants to keep the RCAF viable but he has no money or interest in doing this until his second mandate. A ban could create more anti-Americanism giving him political cover to do nothing. Then there is the real possibility that Trump will kill NAFTA as well. This could allow junior either to buy into the cheaper Euro solution (Gripen) or end the RCAF's fast jet capability. He could likely sell the latter option by claiming to use the savings for the RCN and buying some extra transport planes and helicopters for UN missions to enhance his image with that pathetic organization. Our electorate is stupid enough to accept this.