Russia - General Discussion.

[Feanor]

Somewhat off-topic, random find rom 2001

HS Foreign 4.9.2001 - Tones of reconciliation during Putin visit

I guess he changed his stance on that.

Did he? Is Russia's position that the current annexations are the best way to solve the problem they have? Or would they take the stance that this is far from the best way, but the best way didn't work or wasn't an option? One could argue that the best way for Putin would be to have someone like Lukashenko in charge. But if that's not possible, then other options are on the table. In general of course Putin & Co. have come a long way since the early 2000's and their view on Russia's relationship with the west and on the international order today are very different from what they were back then.

 

[personaldesas]

Did he? Is Russia's position that the current annexations are the best way to solve the problem they have? Or would they take the stance that this is far from the best way, but the best way didn't work or wasn't an option? One could argue that the best way for Putin would be to have someone like Lukashenko in charge. But if that's not possible, then other options are on the table.

that reading turns it into "i wouldnt do it if i had a better option", which is true of literally every decision anyone ever makes. which means the statement would have not meant anything at all. which is a plausible reading.

but it also assumes there was a problem that needed solving urgently. ukraine not having a lukashenko isnt urgent, its just something they didnt like. living with that was always an option.

 

[Feanor]

that reading turns it into "i wouldnt do it if i had a better option", which is true of literally every decision anyone ever makes. which means the statement would have not meant anything at all. which is a plausible reading.

Remember what Russia was dealing with in 2001 - a Chechen separatist insurgency. Of course you don't want borders to change. And this was before Kosovo. It's always interesting to see how opinions change over time, and I don't think this is a statement Putin would have made today.

but it also assumes there was a problem that needed solving urgently. ukraine not having a lukashenko isnt urgent, its just something they didnt like. living with that was always an option.

So if we take that 25 year old statement in today's context it would mean "it was a worse option then having Lukashenko in charge but a better option than simply living with a western-oriented Ukraine".

 

[personaldesas]

Yeah, 100%, saying borders shouldn't change was clearly just a useful thing to say given the circumstances, and not a principle. Which I guess is pretty normal for a politician.

And honestly I don't think anyone should be held to something they said 25 years ago as some eternal yardstick. I mostly just thought it was a curiosity.

 

[personaldesas]

German podcast interviewing the Russian ambassador to Germany. Very softball but interesting nonetheless.

 

[rsemmes]

We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can’t do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine. US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, 25 April 2022.

Pentagon chief’s Russia remarks show shift in US’s declared aims in Ukraine

Defense secretary Lloyd Austin said he ‘wants to see Russia weakened’ – a sign Washington now defines its goals differently

www.theguardian.com

That is the obvious reason for Russia to trust NATO. What nation wouldn.t be happy to be forced into that situation by other countries? If a future Polish leader decides that Kaliningrad belongs to Poland (we heard about Greenland, right?), why shouldn't be Russia in a position where its only option is nuclear war?
Russia should start disarming right now, better even without nuclear weapons.

 

[personaldesas]

We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can’t do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine. US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, 25 April 2022.

Pentagon chief’s Russia remarks show shift in US’s declared aims in Ukraine

Defense secretary Lloyd Austin said he ‘wants to see Russia weakened’ – a sign Washington now defines its goals differently

www.theguardian.com

That is the obvious reason for Russia to trust NATO. What nation wouldn.t be happy to be forced into that situation by other countries? If a future Polish leader decides that Kaliningrad belongs to Poland (we heard about Greenland, right?), why shouldn't be Russia in a position where its only option is nuclear war?
Russia should start disarming right now, better even without nuclear weapons.

We should seek by all means in our power to avoid war, by analysing possible causes, by trying to remove them, by discussion in a spirit of collaboration and good will.

It is unwise and dangerous and, indeed, impossible to keep in permanent inferiority a nation of so many people.

 

[swerve]

It wasn't kept in inferiority before 2022. It's not kept in inferiority now.

Actions have consequences. Russia is currently experiencing the consequences of stupidly invading Ukraine & threatening other European countries, just as the USA (unfortunately not alone) is experiencing consequences from stupidly attacking Iran.

 

[personaldesas]

It wasn't kept in inferiority before 2022. It's not kept in inferiority now.

Actions have consequences. Russia is currently experiencing the consequences of stupidly invading Ukraine & threatening other European countries, just as the USA (unfortunately not alone) is experiencing consequences from stupidly attacking Iran.

I was joking, these are quotes of Chamberlain and MP Culverwell in 1938. Their ideas seem to become popular again.

 

[seaspear]

With some previous discussion on the Bots I thought this article might be interesting ,years ago I did communicate with one of these people who justified it claiming N.A.T.O also used this and refered me to such an advertisement that did not look convincing

I investigated millions of tweets from the Kremlin’s ‘troll factory’ and discovered classic propaganda techniques reimagined for the social media age

Tailored messaging, repeated exposure, and false grassroots campaigns are classic propaganda techniques, now used widely by state-back trolls.

theconversation.com