The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[Murse]

Very interesting to see how old some of the soldiers are by now, how exhausted the population in the frontline areas is, and how no vehicles can get in or out of the hot zone around Kostiantynivka anymore.

Great viideo, thanks for sharing.
I've not commented on this thread before as its not really my wheelhouse but I do wonder why Russia keeps on at this. After seeing the civilians talk, they clearly don't seem to want to be part of Russia, so why keep up the charade? Has it gone too far for Vlad to pull back? Absolutely insane...

 

[rsemmes]

Very interesting to see how old some of the soldiers are by now, how exhausted the population in the frontline areas is, and how no vehicles can get in or out of the hot zone around Kostiantynivka anymore.

I wonder why are they shooting at a distant, fast moving, small target, standing, without support, with ARs.

I also wonder if Russia is taking a second brake. We are halfway trough June and things are even slower than usual. I don't think it's because Russia is "running out of men" (it's not asking for half its cannon fodder to be foreigners), is it training them for longer? Changing tactics again, even more fire and less movement?

Edit.
"Without support" for his rifle, at least one of them was standing by some kind of pillar.

 

[personaldesas]

I wonder why are they shooting at a distant, fast moving, small target, standing, without support, with ARs.

Pure speculation on my part, but when engaging drones I can imagine you’d want to stay somewhat mobile rather than get fixed in one position.

I also wonder if Russia is taking a second brake. We are halfway trough June and things are even slower than usual. I don't think it's because Russia is "running out of men" (it's not asking for half its cannon fodder to be foreigners), is it training them for longer? Changing tactics again, even more fire and less movement?

The reasons might be the recent Ukrainian counterattacks (which split attention), strikes on logistics, and the expanded drone kill zone, which doesn’t favour an offensive force.
I’d also guess that Russia is increasingly forced into small-group infiltration to make gains, that’s simply much slower than more conventional assaults.

 

[rsemmes]

get fixed in one position.

That doesn't explain their shooting.

small-group infiltration

Russia was already doing that, the change is that it looks even slower now.

 

[deyhere]

You keep on about NATO expansion, However NATO is a volatary organisation that countries make their own decision to join, know one is forced to join and this has been explained to you many times by different posters as has the reality that it is mainly Russian actions that have caused this expanxxion not the invassion of sovereign territory, On the other side of the story russian expansion from past history has been by inversion and subjecting of the people and you wonder why NATO is expanding. The simple reality is that Russia is an old fassion expansionist empire.
The last time I checked NATO had not taken over the governments of its members, so let us drop the augment about NATO expansion as it is due mainly to Russian/Soviet actions and they caused it .

You already know my take on this matter, going round and round, don't make any sense

 

[deyhere]

You dodge the main point yet again which in my post it was the children that have been killed,injured or traumitised in both wars so don't talk about hypocrisy until you address the issue of the thousans of Ukrainian children you ignore. The hypocrisy is all yours.

Do you have evidence of these thousands of Ukrainian kids you talk about? pictures, videos, etc? the Russians have a hotline which they claim, parents of missing kids can contact, to reunite with their kids. the Russians claim these kids where caught in the cross fire on the frontline and had to be taken to safety, the Russians don't deny having kids that have lost contact with their parents. it's sad to see kids die anywhere in any war, but with you, you like to criticise Russia only. do what you preach or forget about correcting others, it's pathetic

 

[deyhere]

Yes this does happen due to pollitics and a share set of values just like Russia and its frends also vote together nothing new there.
As for frends well that is like your personal friends you still criticise but but it is done privately, just as you would with a perxonal friend.

thank you, show me your friend and i tell you who you are

 

[deyhere]

You are still lumping all The countries of the western culture together which is wrong we are all individual countries with differing points of view and
labeling all of the with the faults of one is like accusing a sister of the crines of her bother. as for morals I was talking about individuals.

Honestly, if my brother killed someone and went out in public to brag about it, i will dissociate my self completely from him and anything to do with him. but you criticise him in private, according to you then join him to punish someone else that committed the same crime, pretending all along like your own brother is not a killer. don't forget you criticised him in private

 

[deyhere]

I raised the possiblity in regard to a Russian troll due to you basically sticking to the Russian proppergander type of post. however while your english is good, it is not the english of a native born english speaker. My travel has been resticted to many different countries in South East Asia pluss Australia for the obvious reason that they are a lot closer
As for wing augments I have yet to see anything you have posted that has not been counterd by some other poster with a more logical imput.

Facts to me, propaganda to you. lets agree to disagree, why Russian troll? because my views are far away from yours? and now, not the English of a native English speaker? i was born in Brixton, i know no other language than English, or are you trying to determine the Brand of Brit i am? black, white, Indian or Muslim? come on man. nice try thou.
you need to travel more, i will give you a tip. travel to Africa, so you can see for your self what the high moral standard west done to all of Africa and are still doing today. you have to understand that people see the world differently.
countering a post don't mean your counter point is valid.

 

[deyhere]

The problem is not who said something, it is what she said. KipP. in post 14659 already dug into this issue. (rolls eyes)



Just because you consistently use RU talking points, is no reason to think you are a RU troll, right ?

doesn't make any difference, top US official saying that. has to be looked at

are you using western talking points? are you a western troll? give me a break man. trying to label me a troll, meanwhile you and a bunch of guys on here talk to me questioning me aggressively, just because i don't support Ukraine, are you a Ukrainian troll? you constantly use Ukrainian talking points?

 

[personaldesas]

I’m awaiting the proof you offered. Please provide that.

Hey @deyhere, you must have missed my message in your last round of replies.

 

[Feanor]

Very interesting to see how old some of the soldiers are by now, how exhausted the population in the frontline areas is, and how no vehicles can get in or out of the hot zone around Kostiantynivka anymore.

There isn't much of a zone left, Konstantinovka is actively falling day by day. The last map from Suriyak shows Russia holding most of the town, with a large grey zone where Russia is completing sweeping operations, and a small Ukrainian-held area to the north. It's very much like the last days of Artemovsk/Bakhmut. Ukraine may hang out to the northern outskirts for a while.

Great viideo, thanks for sharing.
I've not commented on this thread before as its not really my wheelhouse but I do wonder why Russia keeps on at this. After seeing the civilians talk, they clearly don't seem to want to be part of Russia, so why keep up the charade? Has it gone too far for Vlad to pull back? Absolutely insane...

I think for a video like this one can cherry pick civilians that will support either side. There are definitely civilians in the Donbas that support Russia, and there are videos (I've posted some here) with civilians in occupied areas expressing dislike for the Ukrainian government. Realistically though at this point it doesn't have much to do with the desires of the population. Whereas in Donetsk region you can find plenty of supporters of Russia, in Zaporozhye and Kherson region the situation is very different. We saw this right away in '22 where Russian and back then rebel forces were met as liberators in places like Volnovakha and Severodonetsk, but Russian troops were met with protests and civil demonstrations in Energodar and Kherson city. The argument that it's all about the local wanting to be part of Russia is untrue. And of course opinions change over time. Places like Genichensk for example always had plenty of Russian supporters, and the town benefited from the current situation, growing substantially. Places like Berdyansk started out without particular enthusiasm for Russia, but they've largely been insulated from the war itself, and have also gotten some economic growth out of being part of the new logistics scheme for Crimea and Zaporozhye/Kherson area. So the population there already has a different view of things then people living in Kiev for example. There's no simple answer. Ukrainian civilians, and I use the term to detone citizenship, not nationality, are generally not going to be happy with Russia or excited about Russian advances.

Do you have evidence of these thousands of Ukrainian kids you talk about? pictures, videos, etc? the Russians have a hotline which they claim, parents of missing kids can contact, to reunite with their kids. the Russians claim these kids where caught in the cross fire on the frontline and had to be taken to safety, the Russians don't deny having kids that have lost contact with their parents. it's sad to see kids die anywhere in any war, but with you, you like to criticise Russia only. do what you preach or forget about correcting others, it's pathetic

I think this is beyond factual dispute. Russia has evacuated large numbers of Ukrainian citizens from frontline and near-front areas, including children. In some cases entire orphanages were evacuated. This is a logical step and certainly doesn't constitute the claims of "genocide" that have been advanced. But it is a thing that has happened. Russia has in many cases evacuated children across the international border into Russia itself, and placed them in Russian foster care or in a Russian orphanage. And between the bureaucratic issues, the difficulty of getting to Russia for a Ukrainian civilian, and other related issues, there have been multiple cases of parents having a very hard time recovering their children, the process often taking many months. Again this can't credibly be called genocide, but it does need to be understood that a Ukrainian orphan placed in a Russian orphanage will attend Russian school, and be in an information space where the Ukrainian government is considered fascist, and the war to be justified. And Russia isn't a liberal democracy, meaning that actively insisting on the opposite viewpoint certainly would come with consequences. So when we see claims of brainwashing, this is likely what it's referring to, rather than some sort of dedicated conditioning program (none exists to the best of my knowledge) for Ukrainian kids.

 

[Feanor]

I wonder why are they shooting at a distant, fast moving, small target, standing, without support, with ARs.

I also wonder if Russia is taking a second brake. We are halfway trough June and things are even slower than usual. I don't think it's because Russia is "running out of men" (it's not asking for half its cannon fodder to be foreigners), is it training them for longer? Changing tactics again, even more fire and less movement?

Edit.
"Without support" for his rifle, at least one of them was standing by some kind of pillar.

Russia is struggling to deal with the increases in strikes on Russian logistics. The Hornet loitering munition seems to be the main culprit. It will likely take Russia some time to develop and deploy appropriate countermeasures. Overall this has enabled Ukraine to throw forces into counter-attacks in a few areas, mostly quieter areas of the front line where Russia isn't pushing as hard. Russia has also not been able to make a decisive push north of Pokrovsk, despite intense bombardments. Russia has recently started gaining ground west and north-west, essentially by-passing the Biletskoe-Dobropol'ye area. If this push is ultimately successful, they may push northward west of Biletskoe.

 

[deyhere]

Hey @deyhere, you must have missed my message in your last round of replies.

i didn't miss it, send me a private message so we sort it and you can tell the rest what you confirmed so that this claim of, your Russian or Russian troll will be put to an end. i am not Russian, never been to Russia. My wife is Lithuanian, her dad use to have a bakery in Kaliningrad before the war but he told us he closed down because of difficulty in going back and fort. i don't have anything to do with Russia

 

[Rob c]

You already know my take on this matter, going round and round, don't make any sense

You are the one who keeps raising the subject , I just reply to you, and I give reasons for the reply. When talking about NATO you use emotional replys and when I ask tor facks or logic to back these emotions I get you going off in another direction and avoiding the question. You completely ignore the fact that NATO is a volintary organissation and that the countries that join volinteer to join and why they do this.
Bring back another question, you agreed that countries should not invade others and while other countries have done this, in particular the US none of which I support, it appears that you think that Russia is exempt this rule as you have consistently avoided a reason why they should invade Ukraine as Ukraine was never a danger to Russia and was totaly incapable of being a significant danger. They were simply to small in relation to Russia and ther armed forces to small to threaten Russia.
This is a core question which with out an answer removes the reason for most of the rest of your posts and using the reason that others have done this in the past (which russia? USSR has also) is not valid.

 

[deyhere]

You are the one who keeps raising the subject , I just reply to you, and I give reasons for the reply. When talking about NATO you use emotional replys and when I ask tor facks or logic to back these emotions I get you going off in another direction and avoiding the question. You completely ignore the fact that NATO is a volintary organissation and that the countries that join volinteer to join and why they do this.
Bring back another question, you agreed that countries should not invade others and while other countries have done this, in particular the US none of which I support, it appears that you think that Russia is exempt this rule as you have consistently avoided a reason why they should invade Ukraine as Ukraine was never a danger to Russia and was totaly incapable of being a significant danger. They were simply to small in relation to Russia and ther armed forces to small to threaten Russia.
This is a core question which with out an answer removes the reason for most of the rest of your posts and using the reason that others have done this in the past (which russia? USSR has also) is not valid.

Emotional what? looks like your the one getting emotional here, there's nothing you say that will change the facts. i have told you exactly what i think of NATO. what rule are you talking about? the same rule US broke time and time again? ok, this time Russia broke the rules, why you crying about it? it's life move on. you didn't cry with the same energy when US broke the rules, you criticised them privately. only God knows if you actually criticised them or maybe you gave them a pat on the shoulder.
Russia invaded Ukraine because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, we have had this debate before but you won't let it go so i will throw more light into the subject from another angle. Russia didn't just wake up one morning and invade Ukraine, there was warning upon warning that Ukraine and Georgia can never be allowed to join NATO, one of those warnings came in form of two draft treaties, one to NATO and one to the US. these treaties proposed a ban on Ukraine joining NATO. they clearly said they will act if no one takes them seriously, NATO and the US rejected these treaties, they didn't even negotiate it. Russia invaded to protect it's national security.

why the pain and emotions? is it because the US don't control the monopoly of invading countries anymore?

 

[KipPotapych]

Hey @deyhere, you must have missed my message in your last round of replies.

I doubt any proof provision will take place (and I don’t think it is necessary), but just in case, I strongly discourage disclosing any personal information in public space (if anyone is considering doing so).


On topic, we are back to the ball is in Putin’s court and good talk with Trump stage.

 

[Rob c]

Emotional what? looks like your the one getting emotional here, there's nothing you say that will change the facts. i have told you exactly what i think of NATO. what rule are you talking about? the same rule US broke time and time again? ok, this time Russia broke the rules, why you crying about it? it's life move on. you didn't cry with the same energy when US broke the rules, you criticised them privately. only God knows if you actually criticised them or maybe you gave them a pat on the shoulder.
Russia invaded Ukraine because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, we have had this debate before but you won't let it go so i will throw more light into the subject from another angle. Russia didn't just wake up one morning and invade Ukraine, there was warning upon warning that Ukraine and Georgia can never be allowed to join NATO, one of those warnings came in form of two draft treaties, one to NATO and one to the US. these treaties proposed a ban on Ukraine joining NATO. they clearly said they will act if no one takes them seriously, NATO and the US rejected these treaties, they didn't even negotiate it. Russia invaded to protect it's national security.

why the pain and emotions? is it because the US don't control the monopoly of invading countries anymore?

For your information Russia/USSR have attacked/ invaded 19 countries in the last 100 years

Google Search

significantly more than the US and as for Georgia and Ukraine they were independent nations who have the right to govern themselves as they see fit and make alliances without outside invasion's. neither was a threat to Russia nor had the capability to be so.
You go on about NATO which is a defensive organisation and has never attacked or threaten to attack Russia, however it is a deterrent against Russia attacking it's members and after attacking 19 of its neighbors why are you surprised that Russia's neighbors want protection from such attacks. I think the reason Russia and you are anti NATO is that it stops these attack on the membership and the attacks on Georgia and Ukraine were a case of getting in first while they could to expand the Russian empire.
Google Search

 

[Rob c]

ou need to travel more, i will give you a tip. travel to Africa, so you can see for your self what the high moral standard west done to all of Africa and are still doing today. you have to understand that people see the world differently.

I don't have to travel to africa to understand the harm that happened during the colonials period, but that is the past which we cannot change, I have travelled through a significant number of countries in soith east Asia and my own country has significant populations of different ethnic groups.

• European: 67.8%
• Māori: 17.8% (the indigenous population, or tangata whenua)
• Asian: 17.3% (notably Chinese and Indian communities)
• Pacific peoples: 8.9% (e.g., Samoan, Tongan, and Cook Islands communities)
• MELAA: 1.9% (Middle Eastern, Latin American, and African) [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Google Search

Have you travelled to AFrica

 

[personaldesas]

I doubt any proof provision will take place (and I don’t think it is necessary), but just in case, I strongly discourage disclosing any personal information in public space (if anyone is considering doing so).

I agree that nobody should be posting sensitive personal information publicly.

But he repeatedly pushed back against the idea that he was repeating Russian government talking points by leaning on his identity, the implied argument being that someone who is not Russian cannot be aligned with Russian government narratives. He then repeatedly said he would be happy to prove that identity, as so would strengthen the argument.

So I don’t see the issue with taking him up on an offer he made himself, as long as nothing sensitive is posted publicly and he remains fully in control of what, if anything, he wants to show.

Otherwise, it is fair to ask whether the offer was ever serious, and whether that particular line of argument was being made in good faith.