Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

swerve

Super Moderator
A former colleague of mine accepted a job there, many years ago. Contract for two or three years, IIRC. He & his girlfriend married so she could accompany him. Money was excellent, & they both liked the idea of a new experience.

They went on holiday & didn't go back, long before the end of the contract, walking away from a fat bonus at the end of the contract. From what they said (obviously, I can't vouch for it), they hated the living conditions, shut up in a guarded compound, & hated many of their colleagues. According to them, they could see why a lot of the locals didn't like Aussie expats (to their surprise: neither had problems with Australians they'd met in Europe or Australia). Difficult to make friends with locals, too: there was distrust to overcome, & even when they were friendly it was hard to socialise with them outside work. The locals lived in a different world, which wasn't safe for expats.

Well, that's what they said.
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I have a lady doctor friend. She is a sweet heart, but a bit of an idealist.
She took a job on Manus Island. All was good until she was head-butted by a man who didn't like Lady Doctors, lost front top teeth. Doctors should be men don't you know.
So she moved to Port Morsby. Worked in the hospital for a few years there, and said tales of violence were exaggerated, until she was gang raped in her apartment.
She is now a wreck in Fiji.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moresby and Manus are different. PNG has its challenges, there are many experiences and stories.
Manus is a 50,000 person island. Its problems and challenges may not be impossible to solve if enough resources are thrown at it. Is that the aim though. But how do you do it where it doesn't look like Colonialism?

But is that what Australian and even PNG wants. Would they want a 1,000-5,000 person Japan-US-AU base there. Would that destabilised Manus and maybe cause issue in other provinces. Do Japan and the US want or need that? Is that the place to have it.

My previous post was very hypothetical. It's unlikely to happen right now. We aren't basing P8/F-35/Mogami's in PNG in current planning.

But say the world changes. Say Taiwan is taken by force, the US-China has some sort of confrontation. Guam is wiped out or not long viable. Say we lose Butterworth (Malaysians withdraw support for example - or the country becomes a failed state). What does our posture look like then?

Or the Americans and Chinese strike a deal. The Americans agree to peacefully shift much if their military infrastructure further out to avoid confrontation, to avoid a very costly war on all sides. Shifting resources out of Korea, Japan and perhaps even Guam. Is there anypoint even puting high tech long ranged platforms on manus?

Again, wild bluesky speculation/discussion.

With 737 capability is it viable to fly in ~140 people at a time. There would be space on the island to build a significant naval/air base. With lots of jobs for locals on going in and around that. Perhaps creating some sort of Denarau Island type development. Which was basically developed by Americans/Japanese. But historically more people visited PNG by cruises on P&O than by airtravel.

But without the facilities and sights that isn't going to happen. New Britain/New Ireland has more diving sites which is one of the few real draws of tourists to the area, those who have open water tickets and want to dive real WW2 dive wrecks. Manus isn't really on the tourists hotspots.

Currently Lombrum/Momote are pretty primitive, even with the new upgrades. Its magazine store is tiny, suitable for small arms, not aircraft and naval missiles. It seems to have more WW2 and 70s era stuff than modern usable buildings. The fight won't be happening out of Momote or Lombrum.

Perhaps in the future, it could have a port visit from a Frigate. And perhaps Momote could handle a P8 landing.
Military capability is basically an function of economic capability. I doubt there will be big dreams for PNG unless our other defence partners see particular value in it.
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member


Here tis. All 14 hours of it. Get a stiff coffee beforehand. The defence stuff is in the second video, however there are a number of foriegn affairs related items in the first one.

I saw Greg Moriarty was in for estimates. He described the strategic environment as "challenging". Lots of references to "increasing risk", "growing", "escalating" etc. Seems to be setting the scene for additional expenditure coming up.

The %GDP number got more airplay with the 2.8% discussed. It formally includes infrastructure, veterans pensions and Border Force.

HMAS Supply and Stalwart are aparently both back in the water. Navantia paid nearly all the costs.

The ADF does not buy BYD vehicles. It sounds like they have a growing EV fleet however. No Teslas either.

Leon Phillips got to talk about his cook book. I assume he would have preferred not to.

Sounds like we buy crude Russian fuel via India refining. Aparently that is sufficiently laundered and meets the rules.

177 ASC workers in Pearl Harbour now. 200 by the end of the year. Another 100 next year. Targeting 500 by 2030. The first cohort are due to return early next year, qualified to conduct work on virginias.

About 1,200 US/UK people will be based in WA for the SSN program. Forecasting about 600 houses in the Rockingham region will be required

8 Australian companies now under contract to provide parts into the US Virginia construction program.

Sounds like the Redspice program is maturing, with most of the original $10b invested and the majority of the people recruited. Interesting conversation regarding ASD's work with ASX200 companies to strengthen their cyber security.
 
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iambuzzard

Well-Known Member


Here tis. All 14 hours of it. Get a stiff coffee beforehand. The defence stuff is in the second video, however there are a number of foriegn affairs related items in the first one.

I saw Greg Moriarty was in for estimates. He described the strategic environment as "challenging". Lots of references to "increasing risk", "growing", "escalating" etc. Seems to be setting the scene for additional expenditure coming up.

The %GDP number got more airplay with the 2.8% discussed. It formally includes infrastructure, veterans pensions and Border Force.

HMAS Supply and Stalwart are aparently both back in the water. Navantia paid nearly all the costs.

The ADF does not buy BYD vehicles. It sounds like they have a growing EV fleet however. No Teslas either.

Leon Phillips got to talk about his cook book. I assume he would have preferred not to.
Sounds like we buy crude Russian fuel via India refining. Aparently that is sufficiently laundered and meets the rules.

177 ASC workers in Pearl Harbour now. 200 by the end of the year. Another 100 next year. Targeting 500 by 2030. The first cohort are due to return early next year, qualified to conduct work on virginias.

8 Australian companies now under contract to provide parts into the US Virginia construction program.
[/QUOTE]
Sammy, it's obvious AUKUS is going to happen despite what the naysayers say.
We may have a problem getting port visits into Melbourne so sadly I may never get to see one.
 

Bob53

Well-Known Member


Here tis. All 14 hours of it. Get a stiff coffee beforehand. The defence stuff is in the second video, however there are a number of foriegn affairs related items in the first one.

I saw Greg Moriarty was in for estimates. He described the strategic environment as "challenging". Lots of references to "increasing risk", "growing", "escalating" etc. Seems to be setting the scene for additional expenditure coming up.

The %GDP number got more airplay with the 2.8% discussed. It formally includes infrastructure, veterans pensions and Border Force.

HMAS Supply and Stalwart are aparently both back in the water. Navantia paid nearly all the costs.

The ADF does not buy BYD vehicles. It sounds like they have a growing EV fleet however. No Teslas either.

Leon Phillips got to talk about his cook book. I assume he would have preferred not to.
Sounds like we buy crude Russian fuel via India refining. Aparently that is sufficiently laundered and meets the rules.

177 ASC workers in Pearl Harbour now. 200 by the end of the year. Another 100 next year. Targeting 500 by 2030. The first cohort are due to return early next year, qualified to conduct work on virginias.

8 Australian companies now under contract to provide parts into the US Virginia construction program.
[/QUOTE]
I hope the adf don’t buy BYD vehicles. The US has banned the sale of Chinese Electric vehicles due to what they say is a security and surveillance risks.
 

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
Sounds like we buy crude Russian fuel via India refining. Aparently that is sufficiently laundered and meets the rules.

177 ASC workers in Pearl Harbour now. 200 by the end of the year. Another 100 next year. Targeting 500 by 2030. The first cohort are due to return early next year, qualified to conduct work on virginias.

8 Australian companies now under contract to provide parts into the US Virginia construction program.
I hope the adf don’t buy BYD vehicles. The US has banned the sale of Chinese Electric vehicles due to what they say is a security and surveillance risks.
[/QUOTE]

more to do with protecting us companies. You can bypass the security risk of Chinese evs if need be.
doesnt matter now, we have gone with European, Korean and japanese manufacturers, although some may use catl batteries.
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Sorry everyone. I had a misplaced quote in my above post and this has stuffed up buzz, bob and reptilia when they have replied to it. I have removed it now.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Australia’s main interest with PNG will be forward basing and clandestine operations. I can’t see us doing anything that would openly provoke the Chinese such as basing warships, combat aircraft and missiles.

We could see a few patrol boats and humanitarian equipment.

Probably of greater importance to Australia with PNG is for them to concentrate on internal security rather then train up their military. As things stand they are largely a lawless society, They lack roads and infrastructure. Truthfully the place is a mess.
Development of their special forces and aviation capabilities has been mentioned officially.

I suspect raising and equipping additional special forces elements (long range recon capabilities perhaps) as well as additional helicopter and light utility / transport and fixed wing maritime surveillance capabilities would be on the agenda…

I highly doubt there will be any “significant” combat capabilities delivered. Mortars and HMG’s will be the “high end” at best (or worst depending on your POV).

Some additional naval patrol craft and perhaps some landing craft, maybe tagging onto our LMV projects…
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Development of their special forces and aviation capabilities has been mentioned officially.

I suspect raising and equipping additional special forces elements (long range recon capabilities perhaps) as well as additional helicopter and light utility / transport and fixed wing maritime surveillance capabilities would be on the agenda…

I highly doubt there will be any “significant” combat capabilities delivered. Mortars and HMG’s will be the “high end” at best (or worst depending on your POV).

Some additional naval patrol craft and perhaps some landing craft, maybe tagging onto our LMV projects…
Likewise I would view we need to be a little bit careful with heavy weapons. Bouganville remains a reminder of what can go wrong, and this is still a delicate peace ballance at the moment. Could easily come undone.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Just a nice news article on Erye finally arriving in FBW. She is parked up next to her sister Arafura on the new wharf.
Is Ghostshark compatible with being deployed Arafura? If we ever did want to base something up there, would Arafura be compatible with the facilities? Could it deploy from a slipway or wharf?
 

downunderblue

Well-Known Member
HMAS Supply and Stalwart are aparently both back in the water. Navantia paid nearly all the costs.
That's a big win there. Let's hope they stay in the water and out of the drydock.

I believe we were fortunate to be supported by HMNZS Aotearoa in the interim, but we shouldn't make a habit of being reliant on anyone, not that it was ever RAN's fault of course.

Does anyone know what happened with Navantia? They seemed to lose a fair bit of goodwill in in a short space of time.
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Is Ghostshark compatible with being deployed Arafura? If we ever did want to base something up there, would Arafura be compatible with the facilities? Could it deploy from a slipway or wharf?
I can't find anything on the ghost shark weight, however the earlier prototype (the one that looks like a football from Andruil) weighed a little under 6 tonnes by some reports.

I'm thinking the ghost shark by comparison, is perhaps somewhere between double and tripple that weight (my spit ball guestimate), So 12-18 tonnes. If it has a future torpedo or mine payload, then perhaps more.

The Arafura deck is only rated for 11 tonnes, and I'm unsure if the crane is weight rated for that much either.

So perhaps not.

I think we need something like an offshore supply platform to support the ghost sharks (AKA ADV Reliant). Those things can take hundreds of tonnes, could have a load of several ghost sharks and have massive cranes. Move around like a civilian ship, pick them up, clean them, charge them and put them back in. Reliant doesn't have an armoury, but I wonder what could be done with isotainers to hold payload refills.

Also no reason why ghost sharks could not deploy from HMPNGS Tarangau. Come in at night, get a charge and go back out before day break. Payload changeout might be a bit difficult given the limited armouries on the island though.
 

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
I can't find anything on the ghost shark weight, however the earlier prototype (the one that looks like a football from Andruil) weighed a little under 6 tonnes by some reports.

I'm thinking the ghost shark by comparison, is perhaps somewhere between double and tripple that weight (my spit ball guestimate), So 12-18 tonnes. If it has a future torpedo or mine payload, then perhaps more.

The Arafura deck is only rated for 11 tonnes, and I'm unsure if the crane is weight rated for that much either.

So perhaps not.

I think we need something like an offshore supply platform to support the ghost sharks (AKA ADV Reliant). Those things can take hundreds of tonnes, could have a load of several ghost sharks and have massive cranes. Move around like a civilian ship, pick them up, clean them, charge them and put them back in. Reliant doesn't have an armoury, but I wonder what could be done with isotainers to hold payload refills.

Also no reason why ghost sharks could not deploy from HMPNGS Tarangau. Come in at night, get a charge and go back out before day break. Payload changeout might be a bit difficult given the limited armouries on the island though.
Think 2 Speartooth fit in a 20ft container and Arafura has space for 4 containers, 2 on the flight deck and 2 below under hatches.
 

AndyinOz

Member
The RN's Excalibur UUV which appears to have roughly similar dimensions to Ghost Shark is in the region of 19t according to reports https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news/2025/may/15/20250515-uncrewed-submarine-naming-ceremony so the guess of around 18t would be consistent I suspect. Not sure of the usefulness of piggybacking on the Arafura. I assume the Ghost Sharks are designed to leave base and disappear and go do Ghost Shark things unnoticed.
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Think 2 Speartooth fit in a 20ft container and Arafura has space for 4 containers, 2 on the flight deck and 2 below under hatches.
Yea, the speartooth might be a better match for the Arafura. It aparently has a super long range in the order of 2,000km. Haven't heard much about the Spearfish for a while.

I should note the weight of the ghost shark probably rules them out from the Hunter as well. I think its mission bay crane is rated to about 16 tonnes. Perhaps the Speartooth is a better match for the Hunter.

The ghost shark range I don't think has been publicised, but I suspect it is substantially longer than the speartooth. I suspect it may not actually need a mother ship and can do its own thing.

All in all though, I think the Arafuras have a better purpose. I view they would be more effective with an aerial drone, like the Schiebel S100 we tested and ditched some time ago. Two of these in containers would utilse the flight deck very well have a 200km odd range and could carry a reasonably decent ISR package.

Aerial drones suits the patrol nature of the Arafura better, and provide it over the horizon visibility. The Arafura could operate in the same region as patroling ghost sharks, so it can still utilise their intel and protection.

I haven't heard anything about a replacement for the S100. I'm still not sure why we discontinued it. What happened here?
 
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Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Yea, the speartooth might be a better match for the Arafura. It aparently has a super long range like the ghost shark in the oder of 2,000km. Havn't heard much about the Spearfish for a while.

All in all though, I think the Arafuras have a better purpose. I view they would be more effective with an aerial drone, like the Schiebel S100 we tested and ditched some time ago. Two of these in containers would utilse the flight deck very well have a 200km odd range and could carry a reasonably decent ISR package.

Suits the patrol nature of the Arafura better, and provides it over the horizon visibility.

I haven't heard anything about a replacement for the S100. I'm still not sure why we discontinued it. What happened here?
IIRC there were concerns about the security of the S100, though it might also have been the fact that the selection was made by the previous gov't as a single source procurement rather than an open tender (from apparently give short-listed contenders). It is also possible there were other concerns about the capability and functionality of the S100 drones themselves.
 
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