Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

[BostonMartin]

Frankly a province that is committed to Canada is more deserving of building "war" ships than a province whining about separation. Let Davie build icebreakers and other unarmed vessels, give the stuff with guns to Ontario! As for the number of corvettes, probably depends on whether 15 Rivers are actually built. Hopefully all are built then perhaps 8-12 corvettes, assuming they can be crewed. With up to 12 subs, 15 Rivers, 6 AOPS, 2 (hopefully 3) JSS, and other possible ships in the future, many more personnel will be needed.

Oh don't worry I'm sure an hypothetical Québec country would be willing to throw a bone to the Ontario shipyards and let them do the maintenance on the corvettes. lol (Like Germany or South Korea will do for Canada r/ the new subs...)

 

[CorvetteCrunch]

I'm very curious to see how many they will eventually order to bridge the Kingston & Halifax classes (24? One can dream) and if they will pick only one design. I was reading that Ontario Shipyards and Italy's Fincantieri are also interested to bid.

Fundamentally the larger this design becomes and the further it evolves from an actual Kingston replacement, the fewer vessels the RCN is going to get. With it increasingly looking like the CDC is morphing into a multi-thousand ton corvette-esque combatant, I would expect something like 6-8 vessels if all 15 River class ships are eventually delivered. The RCN runs the risk of flying too close to the sun if they get too capable of a ship for the CDC, as it will call into question politically and financially "why aren't we just getting more of these instead of the big expensive vessels?" If the River class is cut down, you could see more ships but I ultimately think that is a very bad decision.

 

[John Fedup]

Fundamentally the larger this design becomes and the further it evolves from an actual Kingston replacement, the fewer vessels the RCN is going to get. With it increasingly looking like the CDC is morphing into a multi-thousand ton corvette-esque combatant, I would expect something like 6-8 vessels if all 15 River class ships are eventually delivered. The RCN runs the risk of flying too close to the sun if they get too capable of a ship for the CDC, as it will call into question politically and financially "why aren't we just getting more of these instead of the big expensive vessels?" If the River class is cut down, you could see more ships but I ultimately think that is a very bad decision.

Absolutely spot on wrt the River to Corvette ratio. Losing Rivers in order to have more less expensive corvettes, crap decision which sadly will be entertained by our pollies no doubt.

 

[BostonMartin]

Fundamentally the larger this design becomes and the further it evolves from an actual Kingston replacement, the fewer vessels the RCN is going to get. With it increasingly looking like the CDC is morphing into a multi-thousand ton corvette-esque combatant, I would expect something like 6-8 vessels if all 15 River class ships are eventually delivered. The RCN runs the risk of flying too close to the sun if they get too capable of a ship for the CDC, as it will call into question politically and financially "why aren't we just getting more of these instead of the big expensive vessels?" If the River class is cut down, you could see more ships but I ultimately think that is a very bad decision.

Haven't seen it this way. Very true.

 

[BostonMartin]

German or South Korean subs? Ottawa's pick will hinge on economic windfall

 

[John Fedup]

Some news on Seaspan's icebreaker project.

Steerprop and Seaspan expand collaboration on Canada’s next-gen polar icebreaker - Naval Today

 

[Sender]

Interesting article contrasting the 212CD and KSS111 for Canada (spoiler author recommends KSS111):

https://www.michaeljlalonde.com/2025/09/15/which-submarine-should-canada-buy/

 

[John Fedup]

A very fair assessment on both boats and I agree the SKorean boat appears to better meet the RCN’s needs. One factor not mentioned is what kind of weighting will apply to industrial benefits offered by SKorea and Germany. The army has serious equipment needs that both vendors can offer wrt industrial benefits.

 

[Sender]

I suspect that if we buy the Korean subs, the army stuff will go to Europe. There is a substantial requirement for tanks and self-propelled artillery, and if rumours are correct, the army is looking for large numbers of both. There is also the $18.4 Billion helicopter replacement project (nTACS), which would likely go to Europe and/or the US. I think the government will look to satisfy the Europeans, Koreans, and Americans with all these purchases. I think that's why we will commit to the entire order of 88 F-35s. That, with the recent P-8, MQ-9B, SPY7/AEGIS/ESSM/SM-2/Tomahawk, and rumoured $6Billion HIMARS purchase, should satisfy the Americans. The rest will be divided between Korea and Europe.

 

[John Fedup]

I suspect that if we buy the Korean subs, the army stuff will go to Europe. There is a substantial requirement for tanks and self-propelled artillery, and if rumours are correct, the army is looking for large numbers of both. There is also the $18.4 Billion helicopter replacement project (nTACS), which would likely go to Europe and/or the US. I think the government will look to satisfy the Europeans, Koreans, and Americans with all these purchases. I think that's why we will commit to the entire order of 88 F-35s. That, with the recent P-8, MQ-9B, SPY7/AEGIS/ESSM/SM-2/Tomahawk, and rumoured $6Billion HIMARS purchase, should satisfy the Americans. The rest will be divided between Korea and Europe.

nTACS is for multiple applications, perhaps some V-280s from the US and helicopters from Europe. A SK sub purchase likely means German tanks and SPGs but SK has some viable alternatives. Too bad GCAP is a ways off because I wouldn’t object to a mixed fleet of F-35s and GCAPs, especially if Trump continues his BS and let’s face it LM and P&W haven’t performed upgrades on time and costs are increasing and readiness rates ~50-60%. LM is fortunate there are no viable alternatives.