Nothing specified for the power plant? I assume they'll go with NSM so it would be interesting to see how they package the missiles. That 150kW laser is going to be something to behold.
US Navy News and updates
- Thread starter AegisFC
- Start date
I don't get this. How will they realize $30B insavi gs by retiring the Truman? Unless of. course other CVNs will follow. And if partly because of fears from Chinese missiles, then how to justify buying more Ford-class ships? They're just as vulnerable.
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
They realize $30B in savings from the anticipated future service cost for the Truman not being needed.
Truman is forecasted to undergo Refueling and Complex Overhaul (RCOH) during the 2025-2029 period. Not conducting this process could save somewhere in the area of $6B in future expenditures. Then there is the projected operating cost over the period of 20-25 years of post RCOH operation. Current annual operating cost for a carrier are somewhere in the area of $1B (and that will only increase over the next two decades).
While no one has brought it up, the Truman could likely be operated beyond 2025 for a period without undergoing RCOH. Remember, they're proposing retiring her "prior to conducting RCOH", not immediately.
If the proposal to retire Truman early is acted on, I could foresee the Stennis RCOH (currently scheduled 2021-2025) being delayed as Ford becomes battle ready and Nimitz is retired. With Truman remaining in service until the delayed RCOH of Stennis is then completed
Now, any of that would need to be decided in short order, as long lead funds have already been allocated for the Stennis RCOH
Of course, it's way more likely this is all a stunt by "Big Navy" to goad future funding protections and increases out of Congress.
Seems high to me, even factoring inflation.
Found this document dated 1998. Back then the lifecycle cost was $22.2Billion and Annusl Operating cost was $444M.
LIFE-CYCLE COSTS FOR NUCLEAR-POWERED AIRCRAFT CARRIERS ARE GREATER THAN FOR CONVENTIONALLY POWERED
Found this document dated 1998. Back then the lifecycle cost was $22.2Billion and Annusl Operating cost was $444M.
LIFE-CYCLE COSTS FOR NUCLEAR-POWERED AIRCRAFT CARRIERS ARE GREATER THAN FOR CONVENTIONALLY POWERED
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The annual operating cost is now 1 billion per year which seems reasonable after 20 years of inflation from 441 million in 1998. As formerdirtdart mentions, likely a budget ploy which will get shot down by Congress. More importantly, the Ford must have a successful deployment before any premature retirement of Nimitz class CVNs.
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
Technically Kennedy will replace Nimitz. It was a tad late when i posted, and I neglected to include that info. Came back to late to edit.
Though, you can probably expect Nimitz to retire when Kennedy is more or less in the same operational capacity as the Ford is currently. Basically commissioned/non-deployable.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Surely no Nimitz class CVN would be decommissioned until the Ford actually proves it can successfully deploy and operate as intended? I know the elevator issue is on- going and there is a plan to address this. What is the status of the EMALS, can they operate independently or do they still all get shut down for service if one fails?
Paul Allen's research team have found the wreck of USS Wasp (CV-7) in the Coral Sea. Wasp was sunk on 15/9/1942 whilst supporting efforts to reinforce US Marines desperately fighting at Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands, after the USN had controversially withdrawn its ships, including all of the ones with the Marines supplies, ammo, heavy weapons food etc., after reports of IJN forces coming down the Slot. 171 officers and 1,798 enlisted men were saved by accompanying USN destroyers, whilst 26 officers and 167 men were lost.
Wreckage Of World War II-Era Carrier USS Wasp Discovered - USNI News
They have no grave
but the cruel sea.
No flowers lay at their head.
A rusting hulk is their tombstone.
Afast on the ocean bed.
They shall not grow old
as we who are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them
nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun
and in the morning,
we will remember them.
Lest we forget.
Wreckage Of World War II-Era Carrier USS Wasp Discovered - USNI News
They have no grave
but the cruel sea.
No flowers lay at their head.
A rusting hulk is their tombstone.
Afast on the ocean bed.
They shall not grow old
as we who are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them
nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun
and in the morning,
we will remember them.
Lest we forget.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Lest we Forget
Beat me to it, I was about to Post the same Story.
It’s turning into quite a year for finding WW2 wrecks hopefully we will be able to add the HMAS Vampire(1) to this list as there is currently a search going on for her off Sri Lanka.
If they’re looking for Vamps I would hope they will keep and eye out for Hermes, and possibly Dorsetshire and Cornwall as well - they were all sunk in the same general area.
I knew the bloke who was the Yeoman in Vampire when she was lost, lovely bloke who always mourned her loss.
I knew the bloke who was the Yeoman in Vampire when she was lost, lovely bloke who always mourned her loss.
USN looking to ink a 10 Hull purchase for the Virgina Class SSNs. They will all have the new VPM(increases strike length Cells to 40). And it looks to increase production form 2-3 Hull per year
The US Navy, facing a shortfall, aims to ink an enormous attack sub contract next month
The US Navy, facing a shortfall, aims to ink an enormous attack sub contract next month
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Some Columbia class SSGNs would be nice as well. Given all the advances in missile technology, an expansion of the submarine fleet at the the expense of the surface fleet isn’t unreasonable IMO.
The USN has released its new unfunded budget requests for 3.2 billion
Includes two more F35C, two more P8, more LRASM and additional NSM. Interesting it also requests a second HELIOS laser system to be mounted on a DDG by 2020
Helios
First Combat Laser For Navy Warship: Lockheed HELIOS
Full request
Navy Unveils $3.2B Unfunded List: 2 F-35s, New Laser & More Precision Strike
Includes two more F35C, two more P8, more LRASM and additional NSM. Interesting it also requests a second HELIOS laser system to be mounted on a DDG by 2020
Helios
First Combat Laser For Navy Warship: Lockheed HELIOS
Full request
Navy Unveils $3.2B Unfunded List: 2 F-35s, New Laser & More Precision Strike
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
More Ford delays. Perhaps somewhat premature to retire Truman. Why not wait until the Ford gets sorted and then retire the next Nimitz class CVN due for refueling should the Truman’s refueling proceed prior to successful Ford deployment?
USS Gerald Ford Delivery Delayed Due to Extensive Nuclear Propulsion, Weapons Elevator Repairs; Carrier Won’t be Ready Until October - USNI News
USS Gerald Ford Delivery Delayed Due to Extensive Nuclear Propulsion, Weapons Elevator Repairs; Carrier Won’t be Ready Until October - USNI News
The investigations required for the Courts Martial of the Officers of the USS Fitzgerald and the USS John S McCain, have been tainting by interference from the CNO and senior officers of star rank below him. This most likely has prejudiced the cases against the defendants.
How the Navy’s Top Commander Botched the Highest-Profile Investigation in Years — ProPublica
This leads onto this article discussing the problems within the USN surrounding it's maintenance and training and how the senior leadership dealt with it.
Years of Warnings, Then Death and Disaster: How the Navy Failed Its Sailors
Given the claims in the second article, the question has to be asked about the reasons why the CNO and senior star ranked leadership of the USN have been vehement in their actions against the leadership of both these ships and 7th fleet.
How the Navy’s Top Commander Botched the Highest-Profile Investigation in Years — ProPublica
This leads onto this article discussing the problems within the USN surrounding it's maintenance and training and how the senior leadership dealt with it.
Years of Warnings, Then Death and Disaster: How the Navy Failed Its Sailors
Given the claims in the second article, the question has to be asked about the reasons why the CNO and senior star ranked leadership of the USN have been vehement in their actions against the leadership of both these ships and 7th fleet.
Nurse
New Member
Reading the whole report sounds a lot like the 1996 Australian Blackhawk crash and subsequent repercussions amongst the higher ups. The McCain collision looks to be the worst, how in the world they got to Singapore is a mystery based on the crews abilities.
Training and maintenance saves lives. Simple.
If the aim of enquiry was to identify systemic mismanagement that led to the collisions it should have looked into contributing factors and ergonomics that led up to this , 100 hour weeks , training that appeared not to be structured ,think of the Heinrich-and Bird pyramids .
I might expect something of this from private organisations that that dont adequately resource ohs and punish individuals for getting injured not for an organisation (U.S.N) that can access resources usually in private practice no one wants to rock the boat out of fear of upper management and ending their career , looking to find fault in people expected to carry out duties with a flawed structure shows a lack of leadership or courage
I might expect something of this from private organisations that that dont adequately resource ohs and punish individuals for getting injured not for an organisation (U.S.N) that can access resources usually in private practice no one wants to rock the boat out of fear of upper management and ending their career , looking to find fault in people expected to carry out duties with a flawed structure shows a lack of leadership or courage
W
Which report? The pro publica article is not a report, it is a press piece which may or may not be giving the whole story. The published report into the collisions? That certainly placed the blame squarely on the ships (where it undoubtedly belongs in the first instance) and discusses the damage and damage control in some detail. Both collisions were bad. The thousands of pages which went into the assessment of what disciplinary actions should be taken? If so, how did you get hold of it/them?
There is nothing really new in the pro publica piece; it has been known for some time that the prosecutions had been compromised (and were probably inappropriate anyway).
I'm reasonably familiar with the circumstances of the 1996 5 Avn accident and while I can see some similarities in perceived "operational" priorities working against development of core skills and a problem with understanding the limitations of the competency of both people and systems, the command environments above the unit level were quite different.
Which report? The pro publica article is not a report, it is a press piece which may or may not be giving the whole story. The published report into the collisions? That certainly placed the blame squarely on the ships (where it undoubtedly belongs in the first instance) and discusses the damage and damage control in some detail. Both collisions were bad. The thousands of pages which went into the assessment of what disciplinary actions should be taken? If so, how did you get hold of it/them?
There is nothing really new in the pro publica piece; it has been known for some time that the prosecutions had been compromised (and were probably inappropriate anyway).
I'm reasonably familiar with the circumstances of the 1996 5 Avn accident and while I can see some similarities in perceived "operational" priorities working against development of core skills and a problem with understanding the limitations of the competency of both people and systems, the command environments above the unit level were quite different.
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This further article on congressional questioning shows more perspective
Navy Leaders Taken to Task by Lawmakers, Including One Who Was Grilling a Former Boss — ProPublica
I put the below comments as an example of interest as how competencies of training do not seemed to be measured , if this is an accurate example of how training is monitored and organised ,the petty officer is a scapegoat and shows the training itself to be flawed
Jeffery D. Butler, a chief petty officer, pleaded guilty to charges that he had failed to train his sailors on a newly installed steering system for the McCain. Confusion over its operation had contributed to the collision.
Butler testified that he himself had only received 30 to 60 minutes of training on the new system. He had tried to train the sailors beneath him but had failed, he told the court. Butler was demoted a rank — costing him an estimated $200,000 in retirement pay that he planned to use to send his three kids to college.
“What I should have done, I should have gotten knee-deep in the technology. I should have gone page by page” through the instruction manual, Butler said. “I could have told my junior sailors how to better operate their systems.”
Navy Leaders Taken to Task by Lawmakers, Including One Who Was Grilling a Former Boss — ProPublica
I put the below comments as an example of interest as how competencies of training do not seemed to be measured , if this is an accurate example of how training is monitored and organised ,the petty officer is a scapegoat and shows the training itself to be flawed
Jeffery D. Butler, a chief petty officer, pleaded guilty to charges that he had failed to train his sailors on a newly installed steering system for the McCain. Confusion over its operation had contributed to the collision.
Butler testified that he himself had only received 30 to 60 minutes of training on the new system. He had tried to train the sailors beneath him but had failed, he told the court. Butler was demoted a rank — costing him an estimated $200,000 in retirement pay that he planned to use to send his three kids to college.
“What I should have done, I should have gotten knee-deep in the technology. I should have gone page by page” through the instruction manual, Butler said. “I could have told my junior sailors how to better operate their systems.”
Interesting argument in favour of T26 for USN: https://www.realcleardefense.com/ar..._type_26_frigate_might_make_sense_114360.html
A few factual errors with regards to the missile fits on the various variants. The article claims the Australian versions will have 48 Mk 41 cells, but the RAN info graphic clearly shows 32. Also, the article states the RN version will have 16 Mk 41 cells, but the RN info graphic clearly shows 24.
A few factual errors with regards to the missile fits on the various variants. The article claims the Australian versions will have 48 Mk 41 cells, but the RAN info graphic clearly shows 32. Also, the article states the RN version will have 16 Mk 41 cells, but the RN info graphic clearly shows 24.