Australian Army Discussions and Updates

Takao

The Bunker Group
I wouldn’t go looking for too much logic in the organisation of the 2nd division. There are that many vested interests and sacred cows in the reserve that any meaningful change has proven impossible. The greatest example of this is that both SUR and UNSWR still exist. The units are only about five km apart and are entirely redundant, yet the olds and bolds won’t let their unit be disbanded, hence they both still exist. Meanwhile, there is not a single reserve depot in Western Sydney, where so much of the population now lies.

This is where, in my opinion, the leadership of the reserve is letting the rank and file down. The leadership still sees the 2nd division as the 3rd AIF in waiting, and resist anything that would risk that viewpoint. There is such tremendous potential in the reserve, but because that potential only involves the reserve supplementing the regulars, rather than providing formed units in their own right, the leadership won’t allow it to be realised.

Of course, by resisting any meaningful change it simply means they get ignored. The ARA leadership don’t want to invest the emotional energy in trying to force through change, so they simply deny the reserves resources, and invest in areas that are proven to be useful instead.

The best thing that could happen to the 2nd division would be to sack everyone above the rank of major.
@Raven22 - I was just about to write something very similar to this.

I have seen two significant restructure proposals in the past 24 months go up towards the boss. Both were stopped along the way by those vested interests, with negative repercussions for at least one author (despite being simply the officer who got the task). With that lesson in mind, why would an ARA person want to touch it....

I'd lower the rank to CAPT, and include WO's. Just to make sure.....
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
@Raven22 - I was just about to write something very similar to this.

I have seen two significant restructure proposals in the past 24 months go up towards the boss. Both were stopped along the way by those vested interests, with negative repercussions for at least one author (despite being simply the officer who got the task). With that lesson in mind, why would an ARA person want to touch it....

I'd lower the rank to CAPT, and include WO's. Just to make sure.....
Thanks Raven and Takao

I wasn't trying to stir the pot but your frank and honest response certainly suggest the Reserve has a problem.

My view is that Army needs to provide a staged response to any given Military threat.
From Brigade level and below we should cope with a near peer adversary with a level of sustainment for the immediate future.
If the threat goes above a Brigade level of commitment then things are getting serious and we should have the option to commitment for a short duration extral ARA battalions for a short period of time.
Escalate the threat in numbers committed above this and we are getting into a serious mobilisation situation.

Regarding the Reserves I can certainly see a lot more service ribbons worn on ANZAC day by serving Reservist than back in the 80's.
So yes I guess the reserves are providing some supplement in personal numbers to overseas commitments.
What form this should take into the future I can not say.
But does appear a bit piece meal with individual s grabbed from here and there or I may be misinformed.

Regarding a third AIF well the future is always an unpredictable beast, so while can look to the immediate future and say such a scenario probably want happen, it still does not mean it wont.
I would hoped tucked in a draw somewhere is a plan for such a worst can situation and how to deal with it. No doubt such expansion will involve a rapid expansion and no doubt this is where the current reserve units have an important role.

If I may make a suggestion, that for Army to reply to ALL scenarios then in the round out / expand function of 2 DIV, it may need a much greater content of regular soldiers.
Culturally I'd suggest it needs to lose the Reserve Div mind set and have a true and valued role in the ARMY.
I'm sure many suggestions could be made..........But extra regular soldiers would be the start
I'll suggest a couple
Suggest the new UAS surveillance assets been introduced, such as Shadow M2 and Wasp are integrated in 2 Div and operated by regular soldiers
No different to the Regular Brigades.
Certainly Remove the M777 guns from the current Brigades and replace them with an SPG. The testing was done and we were down to two options ..... Either will do so just make the call. The M777 can now be part of 2 Div but as regular unit no different to as today.
Also considere a small number of regulars at battalion level doing some of the most specialist positions not filled by part timers. Support Company comes to mind.

This will cost significant money and energy that I'm sure many would wish spent on other areas.
However we seem to a have belief we will only commit to relatively small scale contingency's.
PS : A Brigade is actually small scale. We just think it's big.
Some expansion future proofing may be prudent for a balanced Army.

After all the future may not be so kind.


Regards S
 
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Joe Black

Active Member
ADBR has an article of RWS trials on Hawkeis, and it has with some nice photos of Hawkei fitted with EOS R400S mk2 and Kongsberg M153 CROWS.

Defence trials Hawkei with remote weapon stations | ADBR

Just having some observations, both the RWS systems look they are sitting really tall on top of the Hawkei vehicle.

As for the EOS RWS, the wirings are running fully exposed, wonder why EOS haven't thought of having the wiring running a lot neater around the mount.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
ADBR has an article of RWS trials on Hawkeis, and it has with some nice photos of Hawkei fitted with EOS R400S mk2 and Kongsberg M153 CROWS.

Defence trials Hawkei with remote weapon stations | ADBR

Just having some observations, both the RWS systems look they are sitting really tall on top of the Hawkei vehicle.

As for the EOS RWS, the wirings are running fully exposed, wonder why EOS haven't thought of having the wiring running a lot neater around the mount.
Probably to stop chafing etc.
 

pussertas

Active Member
Australia-China Joint Military Exercise Kicks Off in Canberra
(Source: Xinhua; issued September 17, 2018)

CANBERRA --- The opening ceremony of Exercise Pandaroo 2018 was held here on Monday, marking the start of a joint exercise by soldiers from the Australian Army and the Chinese People's Liberation Army.

This is the fourth joint exercise since 2015, which will last till September 28. Hosted by the Australian Army's 6th Brigade, the exercise this year will see participants undertaking adventure training activities, including abseiling and sea kayaking, focusing on teamwork, friendship and trust among participants from the two countries.

"In recent years, bilateral defense tie between Australia and China has been developing steadily, which played a positive role in deepening the comprehensive strategic partnership between our two nations," said Senior Colonel Wang Jingguo, Defense Attache of the Chinese embassy in Australia.

"Through the joint exercise, our soldiers could learn from each other and improve together," he said. "The exercise helps promote the mutual understanding and trust between the two armed forces."

Brigadier Cameron Purdey of the Australian Army said that the exercise is a "fantastic opportunity for us to continue developing our relationship among junior soldiers and junior officers."

The soldiers, 10 from each side, were welcomed by indigenous Aunty Tina Brown with a smoke ceremony. Then Colonel Wang and Brigadier Purdey gave patches to all participants.

"We buddied up the Australian and the Chinese," said Maj. Terri King. "It is important for them to understand that language is not the barrier. Language can be cut down so quickly and so easily."

Fu Dingli, a 24-year-old Chinese soldier who went abroad to join such exercise for the first time, told Xinhua that he was looking forward to gaining more field experience and building relationship with the Australian counterparts.

In the following 10 days, soldiers from both sides will have exercises in the Blue Mountains and Sydney regions in New South Wales.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
ADBR has an article of RWS trials on Hawkeis, and it has with some nice photos of Hawkei fitted with EOS R400S mk2 and Kongsberg M153 CROWS.

Defence trials Hawkei with remote weapon stations | ADBR

Just having some observations, both the RWS systems look they are sitting really tall on top of the Hawkei vehicle.

As for the EOS RWS, the wirings are running fully exposed, wonder why EOS haven't thought of having the wiring running a lot neater around the mount.
My two cents on this, and Raven may be able to clarify ? A quick google search of available pictures of both systems does not show the same cabling, my guess is it is test cabling for the trials plugging into the system to gain data etc

Cheers
 

Raven22

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
My two cents on this, and Raven may be able to clarify ? A quick google search of available pictures of both systems does not show the same cabling, my guess is it is test cabling for the trials plugging into the system to gain data etc

Cheers
It is normal cabling. It just provides power to the mount and links it to the controls. It has probably just been left a bit untidy as it is just a trial, and there’s no need to engineer anything neater. All the other cables that link the individual components are exposed too, so it’s no big deal. The whole mount is unarmoured and very easy to break, so a bit of extra cabling doesn’t change much. It might make sense to turn it around so the cables connect at the back, however, if for no other reason than to make them easier to be checked from the hatch as part of action drills.

RWS are fine for self defence, but they are not something that should be on a serious fighting vehicle (except, perhaps, as a tertiary weapon on top of a turret).
 

t68

Well-Known Member
I haven’t found an online source yet but the Australian newspaper says the Australian government may build a base in PNG, to counter Chinese influence . I have not read the story so don’t know details.

Found it behind a paywall, sorry can’t read it.
Nocookies

That headline is a little bit different from the broadsheet copy suggesting Army, but the online version suggesting a naval base.

mods can you move this to the ADF thread please, thank you
 
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pussertas

Active Member
Any word on whether a VC for Australia has been awarded yet? I seem to remember something being mentioned about someone in either SASR or 4 RAR possibly being put in for one. Not that there would be any release on who it would've been given to or why. Still it would be nice to know if one has finally been awarded.

I'll have to read up on the award of the SG since I missed whatever release it was in.

-Cheers
No person serving in the Australian Navy has ever been awarded a VC.

However, the Collins Class submarines are named after Australian sailors who the poms consistently refused to award the VC to.

IMHO naming a submarine after a bloke who has been shown to give extraordinary bravery & even loss of life is a far greater compliment than giving the chap a VC.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
No person serving in the Australian Navy has ever been awarded a VC.

However, the Collins Class submarines are named after Australian sailors who the poms consistently refused to award the VC to.

IMHO naming a submarine after a bloke who has been shown to give extraordinary bravery & even loss of life is a far greater compliment than giving the chap a VC.
Reply to Todjaegers question found above in Post 6150
4 VCs for Australia have been awarded, all for Afghanistan between 2008-13
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Manus I think would be a good location for a surface navy base. I believe its volcanic so might also be of interest for Submarines even at an adhoc basis.
There is also quite a significant airport there already capable of 737 operations. (wedgetail/P8).
Momote Airport - Wikipedia

If PNG and the region around it are interested in Australia projecting a bit more power in that space, it would be one of the key locations to do it. Not just about China either. Disaster relief, search and rescue, humanitarian etc. Also with political and diplomatic issues in the future, it is probably a good place to put something the mediate between PNG and any new nation.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Apologies for going off topic but I figured this would be the best place to ask these questions.

1. Was the U.S. designed LC2 belt standard issue to the Aussie army in the 1980's/1990's?

2. Is the 'belt comforter' actually standard issue or is it a commercially made privately purchased item?

Thank you.
 

Attachments

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Apologies for going off topic but I figured this would be the best place to ask these questions.

1. Was the U.S. designed LC2 belt standard issue to the Aussie army in the 1980's/1990's?

2. Is the 'belt comforter' actually standard issue or is it a commercially made privately purchased item?

Thank you.
Not sure about the Belt, but the comforter started out as a privately purchased item but was eventually introduced as issued Kit.
The Comforter was a great example of a user driven piece of Kit and certainly improved the lives of Soldiers in the Field.
 

oldsig127

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Apologies for going off topic but I figured this would be the best place to ask these questions.

1. Was the U.S. designed LC2 belt standard issue to the Aussie army in the 1980's/1990's?
I don't know about the 90's but that isn't the belt hanging beside me which was standard issue still when I got out in the late 1980s

oldsig
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
In Malaya during the Emergency Aussie troops used British Pattern 37 and 44 webbing but by the time of the Confrontation, in the early 1960's, it was mainly British 58 webbing with some Pattern 44 stuff still in use. In Vietnam Aussie troops were seen using the U.S. M56 pattern. I have seen pics [taken in the 1980's] of Aussie troops in Malaysia using what appears to be an Aussie designed canvas webbing pattern. By the mid to late 1980's the Aussie designed ''jelly bean'' pattern had entered service but I suspect that the U.S. LC2 [ALICE] pattern may also have been used by some units.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Something that caught my eye in Australia Aviation Magazine re a request for Information for a dedicated light special forces helicopter.

Defence seeks new light helicopters for special operations - Australian Aviation

With a delivery around 2023 this is actually not that far away.
I guess this will be an increase in real terms of Army helicopter numbers.

Regards S
it will be interesting to see if the Labour government continue the ADF investment program, but for me my pick would be something with a bit of commonality within the rotary fleet

H145M
 

MickB

Well-Known Member
it will be interesting to see if the Labour government continue the ADF investment program, but for me my pick would be something with a bit of commonality within the rotary fleet

H145M
If, as seems to be the case, the Tigre is to be replaced then compatability is not so important.
I think given the history of euro helos in the ADF that most would be resistant to this idea.
If you want compatability I think a better argument could be found for the purchase of the UH-1Y followed by the AH-1Z.
Although these might not be considered light enough to fit the requirment.
 
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