I was thinking of the Teen jets starting with the Eagle and Tomcat onwards. Anyway, my crystal ball doesn't see that far into the future.
USAF News and Discussion
- Thread starter RobWilliams
- Start date
Costing a restart isn't dumb, but doing it after you've already ceased production is.
I do wonder what a new F-22 would look like. I can only assume it would be F-22 in airframe and engines, F-35 in most electronics packages, and new build whatever it takes to make it all work together. There'll be some big improvements from lessons learnt from F-35 on whatever is built next, but it wouldn't be cheap!
I do wonder what a new F-22 would look like. I can only assume it would be F-22 in airframe and engines, F-35 in most electronics packages, and new build whatever it takes to make it all work together. There'll be some big improvements from lessons learnt from F-35 on whatever is built next, but it wouldn't be cheap!
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
There are some in government and likely the USAF as well that feel there are not enough F-22s to synergistically network to F-35s. If stealth is compromised by new emerging detection technologies, is there a need for jets with better kinematic performance or is the networking and sensor fusion along with new jamming technology make this unnecessary. The more knowledgeable posters here will have to weigh in on this. Regardless of what the answers are, the costs involved with a restart are likely a show-stopper.
If that day ever comes, kinematic performance would likely have graduated to the hypersonic arena to make a difference. The smart money is going into enhancing LO sensors, avionics, etc. for good reason. The limited numbers of the F-22 fleet explains why the AF is adamant about standing firm on it's projected F-35 buy.
The argument against the F-22, then, would be that an unmanned vehicles has far more potential - there's only so much the human body can take.
its pretty dumb when the systems are no longer in development and on limited support.
they basically would have to re-engineer all of the electronics.
its not just an upgrade - its fundamentally a new development - and you'd have to do the CBA and TBA against JSF and UCAS
its not as dumb as trying to do a lazarus on battleships - but it runs a pretty close 2nd
no, its about the overall CONOPs - future tactical constructs and whether the cost to bring that specific capability supports that future combat and warfighting vision
10 years ago, yes.
now? a gradually increase crescendo of "no" ...
yep, agility has been redefined some time ago, its not about kinematics and physical manouvreability
things are much more complex now - it really has accelerated into the issue of a warfighting bubble and how everthing in that dome interacts, supports, shares and asists in temporal and geo specific objects, points and targets of interest.
you don't need to outmanouvre the enemy to render them ineffectual
Jezza
Member
Probably better off ordering some F-15 2040C. Allowing it to supplement the F-22 in the Air-Superiority role. At least there is a production line running.
Only If this F-22 start-up gets some legs and of course the money to do it.
F-15 2040C Proposal includes infra-red search and track, doubling the number of weapon stations, with quad racks for a maximum of 16 air-to-air missiles, Passive/Active Warning Survivability System, conformal fuel tanks, upgraded APG-63(v)3 AESA and a "Talon HATE" communications pod allowing data-transfer with the F-22
Only If this F-22 start-up gets some legs and of course the money to do it.
F-15 2040C Proposal includes infra-red search and track, doubling the number of weapon stations, with quad racks for a maximum of 16 air-to-air missiles, Passive/Active Warning Survivability System, conformal fuel tanks, upgraded APG-63(v)3 AESA and a "Talon HATE" communications pod allowing data-transfer with the F-22
The people in charge must shield the F-35 program from the dangers of future budget cuts, partners dropping out etc. Even thinking about dumping money into the F-22 is stupid.
After the F-35 exports are in full swing and the aircraft is proven. Then an F-22 upgrade program can be started. And I don't see all the panic about the number 187. Just make due with those.
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After the F-35 exports are in full swing and the aircraft is proven. Then an F-22 upgrade program can be started. And I don't see all the panic about the number 187. Just make due with those.
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Last warning to re-think your engagement style.
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Final KC-46 enters trials
The 4th and last Boeing KC-46 Pegasus has begun trials. The ILRP is is also currently under construction by Boeing (at its expense) until accepted
More here
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...h-and-final-kc-46-test-aircraft-takes-424640/
The 4th and last Boeing KC-46 Pegasus has begun trials. The ILRP is is also currently under construction by Boeing (at its expense) until accepted
More here
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...h-and-final-kc-46-test-aircraft-takes-424640/
Apologies, 4th test aircraft.Errr . . not quite the final KC-46. The final KC-46 test aircraft.
A USAF B52H crashed at Guam earlier today (NZST) with the crew ejecting safely. No cause for the crash has been identified yet.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Apparently the out going USAF chief thinks a Raptor restart isn't a "totally wild idea". In addition to reporting a cost feasibility the airforce is also to report on possible foreign involvement by Jan 1 2017. Maybe an improved Raptor will become the "sort of 6th gen fighter.https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usaf-warms-to-f-22-raptor-revival-proposal-425794/
But will LockMart be willing to divert resources to build such a beastie? Where does it say about foreign involvement? At present the F22 cannot be exported by law and that law would have to be changed by Congress.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
It seems that foreign involvement is to be considered but Congress would have to pass a law for this. From the article, "Congress is considering a provision in its fiscal year 2017 defence policy bill that would require the air force to provide a cost breakdown and even consider foreign involvement in the project by 1 January 2017, but Welsh expects an answer about the cost sooner".
As for LM diverting resources, I doubt they would want to. Boeing and NG would probably be happy to but I really can't see where the money would come from domestically. Perhaps an ultra secret survey is needed on possible foreign buyers, if offered, will you buy and how many? The down stroke is the effect on F-35 orders which is why this restart is unlikely.
As for LM diverting resources, I doubt they would want to. Boeing and NG would probably be happy to but I really can't see where the money would come from domestically. Perhaps an ultra secret survey is needed on possible foreign buyers, if offered, will you buy and how many? The down stroke is the effect on F-35 orders which is why this restart is unlikely.
My apologies I stand corrected on the foreign involvement. The article that I linked to in Defence News states:
and the Flightglobal aaticle you linked to states:
Hence there are many issues to be sorted before even getting your flight suit and helmet on John. The US have to get through an election yet.