Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
For christs sake, Australia has purchaced exactly how many harpoons since the 1st buy? Its all in the public domain apparently, so someone google it for me please, because I cant find an answer.

AIM 9 X intial purchace was around 21 missiles, and assosiated gear, followed up by about 350 block 2 AIM 9 X. A lot of WVR missiles for 24 aircraft. (Although they will be used on the F35)

As for the 2 versions of HARM, I can only speculate that the E version would be more expensive than the B, and the B would be perfectly suitable for a lot of targets, making it the most cost effective weapon to use in some circumstances, where as more modern or important targets would have a better kill probability with the E.

I believe that The ALARM missile is superior to both versions, and has a "loiter" ability, where after launch, it will continue to look for targets if its initial target "disapears".
There were some reports ALARM was more effective in some circumstances than HARM as its loitering capability allowed it time to engage targets when they were 'shooting and scooting' whereas HARM was a direct attack weapon and if the radar shut down, they were no longer capable of targetting it.

Which is why AARGM was developed with MMW and GPS/INS guidance to continue targeting even if the targetted radar / system was switched off. ALARM is now an obsolete system in RAF service that is being retired without replacement.

Personally I suspect HARM is the cheaper weapon and is being obtained for training purposes, including the occasional live fire event and the operational capability resides with AARGM.

Not to mention AARGM has yet to pass all its qualifying Operational Test and Development milestones, so HARM B might also be a safeguard until AARGM is completely operational.

As for Harpoon, I've seen an order for 64x Harpoon II which was the warstock for the ANZAC Class surface warfighting upgrade project and a $30m contract for upgrade kits to bring older 'nn' amount of Block IC weapons to Harpoon II standard.

But as other posters have opined, there isn't anything that isn't approved by Congress and Opsec has no place here...

:rolleyes:
 

hairyman

Active Member
When are we going to order some of the Norwegian missiles that are apparently better than the Harpoons? Or is that only because they can be carried in the interior of the F35s?
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
When are we going to order some of the Norwegian missiles that are apparently better than the Harpoons? Or is that only because they can be carried in the interior of the F35s?
The future anti-ship missile of the ADF remains up in the air. The missile you mentioned, the Kongsberg NSM, is one such potential contender, although there is a air-launched variant being designed for the F-35 by Kongsberg and Lockheed-Martin (I think?) called the Joint Strike Missile or JSM.

Other possibilities include the LRASM, whatever form that takes in the end. I suspect the LRASM will end up being the more capable of the two, from the information I've seen on the weapon's desired capabilities. There's also been talk of an upgraded anti-ship Tomahawk variant too, though I've heard nothing about the ADF being interested in such a proposal.

Short answer, I don't know, but I suspect the above will make up the contenders with the most potential.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
When are we going to order some of the Norwegian missiles that are apparently better than the Harpoons? Or is that only because they can be carried in the interior of the F35s?
What Bonza said... :D

The ADF has a requirement for a future maritime strike weapon for the F-35. That hasn't been decided yet. This weapon 'may' also equip the future maritime patrol aircraft capability (P-8A) however that hasn't yet been decided, let alone a definitve evaluation of options conducted...

Obviously at some point RAN's sub and surface launched anti-ship missiles will also require replacement, however that hasn't even reach project definition stage, let alone evaluation of potential solutions.

Given the ADF's lack of real interest in a replacement (other than something for F-35 as Harpoon will NOT be integrated) I don't think it the pressing issue some seem to see it being.
 

John Newman

The Bunker Group
The future anti-ship missile of the ADF remains up in the air. The missile you mentioned, the Kongsberg NSM, is one such potential contender, although there is a air-launched variant being designed for the F-35 by Kongsberg and Lockheed-Martin (I think?) called the Joint Strike Missile or JSM.

Other possibilities include the LRASM, whatever form that takes in the end. I suspect the LRASM will end up being the more capable of the two, from the information I've seen on the weapon's desired capabilities. There's also been talk of an upgraded anti-ship Tomahawk variant too, though I've heard nothing about the ADF being interested in such a proposal.

Short answer, I don't know, but I suspect the above will make up the contenders with the most potential.
The weapons mentioned above generally fall into two categories, 'internal' and 'external' carried by an F-35 (not to say that there isn't justification for both).

The Norwegian JSM (based on the ship launched NSM) is capable of being carried internally on the F-35, there has also been 'fitment' trials of JSM on Super Hornet in the US (not integration or test firing), so JSM is a weapon that can potentially be used by both F35A and F/A-18F, internally on one and externally on the other.

On the other hand, LRASM is based on JASSM / JASSM-ER, and both of those can only be carried externally on F-35 (I believe they are too long to fit in the weapons bay), obviously due to their rather long range external carriage is not necessarily an issue. Whilst we have integrated JASSM on the Classic Hornets, we (and I believe the USN) haven't integrated JASSM onto the Super Hornet.

The other weapon that might also be considered is JSOW, which is currently used on RAAF F/A-18F's and will be able to be used internally on the F-35, but the one issue, of sorts, with JSOW is that it is not 'powered', it is a 'glide' weapon with a max range from high altitude of reportedly around 130k's, but much shorter from low altitude.

There is a US proposal to produce a JSOW-ER (500k+ range) which will be 'powered', all within the existing airframe and if that upgrade does happen then it should also be an internally carried F-35 weapon.

It all gets rather confusing doesn't it?? Some of the possible choices are USAF weapons, some are USN weapons and some are Euro weapons!

The other interesting thing about LRASM (derived from JASSM-ER) is that it has also been test fired from the USN's ships using Mk41 VLS and has the potential to be the USN's long range anti-ship missile replacing or supplementing Harpoon (it may also be developed for sub launch too).


It's going to be interesting in the years to come when the F-35 starts to enter RAAF service (the AWD's, Future Frigates and Collins replacement enter service too) as to what the anti ship weapon (and land strike weapon) will be.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Looks more likely the number will be x2 MRRT's with a press 'mistake' made through the Spanish Embassy in Canberra - which has now since been deleted. RAAF to get two more tanker transports - IHS Janes

I'm wondering (if the numbers are correct), whether they'll be new builds or commercial conversions?

Also, the first new C-27J landed at RAAF Richmond yesterday.
Now that numbers 9 & 10 C17 looks to have disappeared and with past announcement made by DM Johnston at the time of 2 extra MRTT for mixed VIP tanker work, could those funds earmarked for C17 be diverted to make 4 extra MRTT with number 9 exclusively used for VIP but retain capabilty if needed.

Being such a force multiplier ideally I would like to see a Squadron capabilty of 12 aircraft
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The future anti-ship missile of the ADF remains up in the air. The missile you mentioned, the Kongsberg NSM, is one such potential contender, although there is a air-launched variant being designed for the F-35 by Kongsberg and Lockheed-Martin (I think?) called the Joint Strike Missile or JSM.

Other possibilities include the LRASM, whatever form that takes in the end. I suspect the LRASM will end up being the more capable of the two, from the information I've seen on the weapon's desired capabilities. There's also been talk of an upgraded anti-ship Tomahawk variant too, though I've heard nothing about the ADF being interested in such a proposal.

Short answer, I don't know, but I suspect the above will make up the contenders with the most potential.
I understood the Kongsberg JSM was being co-developed/funded by the company and Australia so there may be a fair chance of acquisition by the RAAF

Norway and Australia to cooperate on Joint Strike Missile-development - Kongsberg Gruppen
 

Raven22

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
There's a press release this morning announcing the acquisition of two more KC-30s. No mention though of whether they will be dual hatted as VIP aircraft or whether they are brand new from the factory or conversions of existing airframes. A delivery date of 2018 would indicate to me that they are new aircraft, as conversions should be able to be delivered earlier.

Either way, Amberely is going to be full.

Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence – Two additional KC-30A Multi-Role Tanker Transport aircraft for the RAAF
 

meatshield

Active Member
There's a press release this morning announcing the acquisition of two more KC-30s. No mention though of whether they will be dual hatted as VIP aircraft or whether they are brand new from the factory or conversions of existing airframes. A delivery date of 2018 would indicate to me that they are new aircraft, as conversions should be able to be delivered earlier.

Either way, Amberely is going to be full.

Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence – Two additional KC-30A Multi-Role Tanker Transport aircraft for the RAAF
Read this today. 2 ex Qantas a330 to be converted
RAAF to acquire two additional KC-30s | Australian Aviation
 

Raven22

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
It looks like the little birdie was right then.

I put money on the two 'new' aircraft being given VIP interiors straight away and doing VIP work until they can rotate through the MRTT conversion.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
It looks like the little birdie was right then.

I put money on the two 'new' aircraft being given VIP interiors straight away and doing VIP work until they can rotate through the MRTT conversion.
a lot of money being spent on AirForce and Navy, when is Army going to get a piece of the pie?
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
Should kick off soon, Seams to be more regular talk about it these days.

That aside more logical concentrating on the RAN and RAAF first as they are the front line. Good to hear about the extra KC-30s though, Now what are the chances of us getting some long range strike aircraft? (I'm dreaming I know)
 

Raven22

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Should kick off soon, Seams to be more regular talk about it these days.

That aside more logical concentrating on the RAN and RAAF first as they are the front line.
I'm sure the diggers in Timor, Iraq and Afghanistan over the last 16 years will be surprised to know they weren't on the front line.
 
Any truth that VH-EBH and VH-EBI are to go to the RAAF after a maintenance
lay up in Singapore.
Both aircraft are leased expired.

330-202 with GE CF6-80E1A4 Engines.
Both aircraft are under 8 years old.
New VIP fleet for RAAF.?
Well done Jezza, looks as though you found the right information.
 
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