New Zealand Army

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
Zero Alpha

Much appreciated. My total ignorance of firearms means I have little idea what it all means, but no doubt there are other forum members who can offer informed comment. Does the spec look like it was written to fit something the NZDF has informally 'chosen', or is it genuinely open?

Also, what is a Blue Weapon (mid-way down the list)? Whatever it is, NZ wants to buy 2000 of them.

Thanks again
 

Norm

Member
35,000 magazines,divide by 7,000 5 per Gun or 8,800 4 per gun.Seems on the low side.Expect at a bare minimum, 6.
Originally NZDF purchased 18,000 Steyr Rifles , now days "owns" up to a 13,000 holding so further slippage in active & reserve stock holdings with 7,000-8,800 being sourced.
 

Zero Alpha

New Member
gf0012-aust deleted my previous post based on the mistaken belief it was somehow sensitive material.

If anyone would like to see the contents of the tender document, go to www.gets.govt.nz, register and it's accessible to anyone with access to the government tender site (i.e anyone who wants it).
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
gf0012-aust deleted my previous post based on the mistaken belief it was somehow sensitive material.

If anyone would like to see the contents of the tender document, go to www.gets.govt.nz, register and it's accessible to anyone with access to the government tender site (i.e anyone who wants it).
Best if people do register themselves if they require information. Govt Tender dox are ringfenced from being freely publicly available via the gateway of registration. Their is an element of commercial sensitivity with respect to interested parties that lies behind this recent move by GETS to control who gets the information. The issue here is with how that information is used and for what purpose. Whacking tender dox up on a public forum even though innocently and for good intentions does ruffle feathers and GF felt it prudent to zap it when alerted to it.

Cheers MrC
 

RegR

Well-Known Member
I also see on that page a request for tender of a parachute training service aircraft for DF, ahhh if only we had our own smaller military AC type that could cover this as well as a few other tasks.....
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I also see on that page a request for tender of a parachute training service aircraft for DF, ahhh if only we had our own smaller military AC type that could cover this as well as a few other tasks.....
If its a twin engine jobbie then you already have the french trying to pump small ISR modules into modified transports - so the cargo area can already be filled with jumpers if it becomes an option
 

Zero Alpha

New Member
Best if people do register themselves if they require information. Govt Tender dox are ringfenced from being freely publicly available via the gateway of registration. Their is an element of commercial sensitivity with respect to interested parties that lies behind this recent move by GETS to control who gets the information. The issue here is with how that information is used and for what purpose. Whacking tender dox up on a public forum even though innocently and for good intentions does ruffle feathers and GF felt it prudent to zap it when alerted to it.

Cheers MrC
Feathers get ruffled for all sorts of reasons. Often without particular cause.

GETS registration has been required for at least the last decade. It isn't 'a recent move.'

The only restriction on reposting material posted to GETS is where it is specifically labelled commercially sensitive or restricted. GETS actually encourages media to register. Here's the relevant part of the Q&A:


Who is a supplier?

A supplier is any organisation or individual interest in receiving notifications of opportunities on GETS responding to tenders or supplying products or services to a public sector organisation. This also includes consultants and contractors. You can register as a supplier to gain public access to information about government procurement opportunities e.g. media, professional and trade associations.

For NZ residents, the site https://www.fyi.org.nz
provides an easy tool for submitting requests under the OIA and guidance on how to do so. If anyone has a particular concern about the status of documents, I'd suggest requesting the document using this process, and let the vetting process smooth your ruffled feathers.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Feathers get ruffled for all sorts of reasons. Often without particular cause.

GETS registration has been required for at least the last decade. It isn't 'a recent move.'

The only restriction on reposting material posted to GETS is where it is specifically labelled commercially sensitive or restricted. GETS actually encourages media to register. Here's the relevant part of the Q&A:


Who is a supplier?

A supplier is any organisation or individual interest in receiving notifications of opportunities on GETS responding to tenders or supplying products or services to a public sector organisation. This also includes consultants and contractors. You can register as a supplier to gain public access to information about government procurement opportunities e.g. media, professional and trade associations.

For NZ residents, the site https://www.fyi.org.nz
provides an easy tool for submitting requests under the OIA and guidance on how to do so. If anyone has a particular concern about the status of documents, I'd suggest requesting the document using this process, and let the vetting process smooth your ruffled feathers.
My are feathers not ruffled. It is just that DT has become precautionary about redistributing source material when we do not know if it is sensitive commercially or securitywise. The deletion of the post by GF was not about you personally, but about moderating a DT guideline. I trust that clears that up.

Cheers MrC
 

RegR

Well-Known Member
If its a twin engine jobbie then you already have the french trying to pump small ISR modules into modified transports - so the cargo area can already be filled with jumpers if it becomes an option
I would hope this was an option otherwise it may well be a pre-cursor to contracting out other functions in this class such as ISR, transport etc, satisfying the govt requirement but still leaving the RNZAF and NZDF wanting.

Civilianisation of roles instead positions.
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
Best if people do register themselves if they require information. Govt Tender dox are ringfenced from being freely publicly available via the gateway of registration. Their is an element of commercial sensitivity with respect to interested parties that lies behind this recent move by GETS to control who gets the information. The issue here is with how that information is used and for what purpose. Whacking tender dox up on a public forum even though innocently and for good intentions does ruffle feathers and GF felt it prudent to zap it when alerted to it.

Cheers MrC
Mea culpa, mea culpa etc

Zero Alpha was simply responding to a request I made for the specs to be posted ex GETS, so any fault rests with me.

Thanks for helping out, ZA. Sorry it ran afoul of the mods.

I'm a little perplexed by what NZ govt thinks can be achieved by discouraging posting of tender specs on a public website, given any member of the public can sign up for GETS and download the same material at will?

Still, ours is not to reason why...

I'm still curious what a 'blue weapon' is, if anyone knows?
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Mea culpa, mea culpa etc

Zero Alpha was simply responding to a request I made for the specs to be posted ex GETS, so any fault rests with me.

Thanks for helping out, ZA. Sorry it ran afoul of the mods.

I'm a little perplexed by what NZ govt thinks can be achieved by discouraging posting of tender specs on a public website, given any member of the public can sign up for GETS and download the same material at will?

Still, ours is not to reason why...

I'm still curious what a 'blue weapon' is, if anyone knows?
Do not blame yourself. The mea culpa was ZAs in that he didn't abide by all of the T&Cs. The pollies and the bureaucrats have reasons that are a mystery to the rest of us and unfortunately for us we generally have to abide by them. You can register yourself if you want to. It is a free service.

A blue weapon is a practice weapon. It's used to practice drills procedures etc., that do not need a real (white) weapon for. That is my understanding of modern day practises anyway. When I was in uniform we learnt all that using "white" weapons and were very quickly introduced too and mastered the skill of thoroughly cleaning and keeping clean such weapons.
 

Cadredave

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I'm still curious what a 'blue weapon' is, if anyone knows?
A blue weapon in todays training environment means:

have the ability to fire man marking ammunition only - it can not be used to fire any other type of ammunition ie Live ball or blank.

Cheers
CD
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I also see on that page a request for tender of a parachute training service aircraft for DF, ahhh if only we had our own smaller military AC type that could cover this as well as a few other tasks.....
From what I can gather it is a civy aircraft and qualified civy pilot they are looking for. So you may see something along the lines of a Cresco 750 etc., doing para drops for the likes of Kiwi Blue at displays etc., instead of the C130. My own pick would be the ZK-WAR the Warbirds Dakota :) However on a more serious note I think it would include the para training at PTSU at Whenuapai.
 
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Gibbo

Well-Known Member
From what I can gather it is a civy aircraft and qualified civy pilot they are looking for. So you may see something along the lines of a Cresco 750 etc., doing para drops for the likes of Kiwi Blue at displays etc., instead of the C130. My own pick would be the ZK-WAR the Warbirds Dakota :) However on a more serious note I think it would include the para training at PTSU at Whenuapai.
Not certain but I seem to remember hearing that PTSU have been using a civvy a/c & pilot for some time, as required, with Hercs used where warranted!?! Could this possibly just be a case of putting something more formal in place?!!
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
Faulty vehicles revealed as Nats unveil Defence policy - Vote 2014 News | TVNZ

Saw a brief piece on the TV news earlier in the week. Presumably the vehicle referred to is the armoured version of the LOV. Looks as if it has the same axles as the regular LOV, which aren't up to the strain of the extra weight. Not a great looking having to wait 9 months for replacement parts, and it isn't clear whether they will be more of the same, or a heavy-duty replacement.

Bit hypocritical of Labour to complain, given they were the government that bought the vehicles in the first place!
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Faulty vehicles revealed as Nats unveil Defence policy - Vote 2014 News | TVNZ

Saw a brief piece on the TV news earlier in the week. Presumably the vehicle referred to is the armoured version of the LOV. Looks as if it has the same axles as the regular LOV, which aren't up to the strain of the extra weight. Not a great looking having to wait 9 months for replacement parts, and it isn't clear whether they will be more of the same, or a heavy-duty replacement.

Bit hypocritical of Labour to complain, given they were the government that bought the vehicles in the first place!
Yes quite hypocritical. To quote a sailors saying, some would whinge if their a**e was on fire and they would whinge if you p****d on it to put the fire out. I don't know much about the Pinzgauers so am unsure whether they were a good or bad purchase. However why do they have to wait 9 months for replacement parts?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I don't know much about the Pinzgauers so am unsure whether they were a good or bad purchase.
They are a bloody good vehicle - very highly regarded and nicknamed in some circles as the "billy goat" as they'll just about go anywhere a billy goat can go :)

The question is what did NZDEF do to change the spec from factory that has caused the probs? The main problem then appears to be the maint contract.

Aust has had similar probs with the Supacats - the problem hasn't been about the vehicle, its been about engineering changes
 
They are a bloody good vehicle - very highly regarded and nicknamed in some circles as the "billy goat" as they'll just about go anywhere a billy goat can go :)

The question is what did NZDEF do to change the spec from factory that has caused the probs? The main problem then appears to be the maint contract.

Aust has had similar probs with the Supacats - the problem hasn't been about the vehicle, its been about engineering changes
One thing about the Pinni's that they are deafening especially for driver and co driver.
In terms of engineering changes there was a change to the transmission (I think from a ZF to Allison but not a 100%) that resulted for some reason in cooked boxes. But as I remember it the manufacturer came to the party and helped sort it out. They are a good vehicle off road and heaps of room to carry stuff. Just wonder if there is sufficient parts commonality (are the brits even still using them after the RMP thing in Basra?).
And I have heard of reluctance to use Armoured lov at all. Apparently it was abit of a punt that didnt work out.
 
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