Indian Military Aviation; News, Updates & Discussions

[dragonfire]

Another Su-30MKI has crashed. The reason is given as technical failure.

bmpd - Ð*азбилÑÑ Ñ‚Ñ€ÐµÑ‚Ð¸Ð¹ индийÑкий Су-30МКИ

Yup two crashes out of 3 now are due to Technical Failures while one was attributed to the Pilot accidentally causing a malfunction by switching off some important sub system. Still 2 crashes in a decade is huge difference from the it-could-fall-from-the-sky-anytime Mig-21s

 

[Twinblade]

Another Su-30MKI has crashed. The reason is given as technical failure.

bmpd - Ð*азбилÑÑ Ñ‚Ñ€ÐµÑ‚Ð¸Ð¹ индийÑкий Су-30МКИ

IAF grounds Sukhoi till 'precautionary checks' over - The Economic Times

Though IAF ordered a court of inquiry to ascertain the exact reason behind Tuesday's crash, what accentuated concerns is that preliminary reports held the mishap was due to "technical problems", possibly due to the failure of "fly-by-wire (FBW) control system".

April 09 crash was due to pilot accidentally switching off FBW instead of the radar mode switch during a DASI flight, November 09 crash was due to problems with fuel supply during take off.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Indian Navy to induct 24 Boeing P-8I maritime patrol aircraft

It seems like Indian navy has fallen in love with their latest acquisition and are going to order a dozen more.

I haven't seen the specs for the Indian P8's but I have for western versions (not public release)

I have to say that I originally was technically "hostile" to jets replacing props for the role, but having now seen the performance specs and weapons fit out proposed for RAAF, I wish we'd bought more.

They are a seriously good piece of kit, esp the UAV management side of their capability.

 

[gf0012-aust]

It as well as the IL-38 SD had earlier been integrated with the Sea Eagle AShM which the BrahMos would replace

One of the reasons for getting the P8 was the fact that the IL-38's were struggling to meet the user requirements even after the SeaDragon fitout, They would have to have a very low availability rate and it was pretty apparent that the IAF was unhappy with circumstances.

I cannot see Brahmos getting integrated into the P8 unless the IAF picks up the tab to do so. If it was the case, then I'd also expect to see one of the P8's pulled from service so that DRDO could use it as a testbed.

 

[Twinblade]

One of the reasons for getting the P8 was the fact that the IL-38's were struggling to meet the user requirements even after the SeaDragon fitout, They would have to have a very low availability rate and it was pretty apparent that the IAF was unhappy with circumstances.

I cannot see Brahmos getting integrated into the P8 unless the IAF picks up the tab to do so. If it was the case, then I'd also expect to see one of the P8's pulled from service so that DRDO could use it as a testbed.

Considering that the first of P-8I is undergoing avionics integration, it may entirely be possible that certain provisions be left for integration of DRDO subsystems in the future. I find it unlikely that the IN will not press for Brahmos integration on P-8I considering the rivalry IN air wing has had with IAF for airborne maritime strike capabilities.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Considering that the first of P-8I is undergoing avionics integration, it may entirely be possible that certain provisions be left for integration of DRDO subsystems in the future. I find it unlikely that the IN will not press for Brahmos integration on P-8I considering the rivalry IN air wing has had with IAF for airborne maritime strike capabilities.

I can't see it happening as it would be a major re-engineering job - and probably mean recertification of the airframe.

you can't put brahmos in the existing bays as you would have to either rebuild the bays for dedicated carriage or you would sacrifice existing loadout for a combination fit. that would mean that its a wing loadout. structurally I can't see that working too well.

I suspect that IN will get smaller AShM that are already marked and certified in the builds.

Their primary role is BAMs and ISR, anti-shipping is a follow on capability.

 

[dragonfire]

I haven't seen the specs for the Indian P8's but I have for western versions (not public release)

I have to say that I originally was technically "hostile" to jets replacing props for the role, but having now seen the performance specs and weapons fit out proposed for RAAF, I wish we'd bought more.

They are a seriously good piece of kit, esp the UAV management side of their capability.

Dont recall having read anything in detail about the specs in general for the Neptune but; i doubt if a UAV management capability is being on-boarded for the IN purchase

One of the reasons for getting the P8 was the fact that the IL-38's were struggling to meet the user requirements even after the SeaDragon fitout, They would have to have a very low availability rate and it was pretty apparent that the IAF was unhappy with circumstances.

One of the reasons for increased orders for the P-8I by the IN is because of what you stated below

having now seen the performance specs and weapons fit out proposed for RAAF, I wish we'd bought more.

I cannot see Brahmos getting integrated into the P8 unless the IAF picks up the tab to do so. If it was the case, then I'd also expect to see one of the P8's pulled from service so that DRDO could use it as a testbed.

Dont understand why IAF has to pick the tab for the BrahMos, the Neptunes are IN assets and as of now IN is the larger operator of BrahMos missiles

 

[Feanor]

It appears that the contract for 42 more MKIs has been signed at 3.4 bln USD, with the recent crash this raises total numbers to 269 aircraft for the IAF. They will be delivered as kits to India.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ìåäâåäåâ è èíäèéñêèé ïðåìüåð ïîäïèñàëè êîíòðàêò î ïîñòàâêå 42 êîìïëåêòîâ Ñó-30ÌÊÈ Èíäèè

 

[Twinblade]

It appears that the contract for 42 more MKIs has been signed at 3.4 bln USD, with the recent crash this raises total numbers to 269 aircraft for the IAF. They will be delivered as kits to India.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ìåäâåäåâ è èíäèéñêèé ïðåìüåð ïîäïèñàëè êîíòðàêò î ïîñòàâêå 42 êîìïëåêòîâ Ñó-30ÌÊÈ Èíäèè

$81 million, not bad. The translation of the report says the radar is "leopard", is it Bars or Irbis ?

 

[Feanor]

Bars. But that part of the article may not be accurate.

 

[Rish]

anyone else wondering why the IAF chief had to 'restore the confidence' of pilots flying the MKI? It's a little troubling that the men that fly these machines on a daily basis are concerned about the safety of the aircraft. The chief referred to HAL in one of the quotes:

"Our boys have been doing an excellent job and the momentum of building up the new SU-30 squadrons needs to be maintained. Our people should remain our highest priority because it is then that a cohesive team translates itself in to a success story'

Maybe there are pilot confidence issues with HAL built MKIs? I personally think its more of a media/political stunt to fend off any criticism against placing orders for more MKIs rather than a message meant for the pilots. The crash did happen right before the announcement if I'm correct. Any thoughts?

Crash-hit Sukhois get Indian Air Force chief's thumbs up | TwoCircles.net

 

[T.C.P]

This news can't be good for a force which is trying to cut a heavy crash rate-

Shortage of trainer aircraft, so IAF cuts flying time of rookie pilots to one-third - Express India


Ona totally unrelated note here is an interesting tribute to the Mig-21-

My Fair Lady -

http://www.indiarightsonline.com/Sabrang/india5.nsf/4e95df6ea70fe4a7e5257713005deca6/34fdef9d26fafbcc65256e0e004757ce?OpenDocument

The number of sorties is very impressive!

 

[Feanor]

The MCA tender results may get cancelled because neither of the entries (Rafale and EF) can meet the cost requirements. This would mean that they would have to either reconsider some of the dropped entries, or decrease the number of airplanes.

Lenta.ru: Îðóæèå: Èíäèéñêèé èñòðåáèòåëüíûé òåíäåð îêàçàëñÿ ïîä óãðîçîé ñðûâà

 

[dragonfire]

The MCA tender results may get cancelled because neither of the entries (Rafale and EF) can meet the cost requirements. This would mean that they would have to either reconsider some of the dropped entries, or decrease the number of airplanes.

Lenta.ru: Îðóæèå: Èíäèéñêèé èñòðåáèòåëüíûé òåíäåð îêàçàëñÿ ïîä óãðîçîé ñðûâà

It is highly unlikely that the MMRCA Tender would be cancelled outright this soon. The budget was announced many years ago which means that definitely there is scope for India to increase it, however India may not be willing to allocate many times that budget for the purchase, it all depends on the price quotations from the bidders and follow on negotiations. It is too early to conclude eitherways. Also there would not be a question of decreasing the order size as it directly corresponds to the requirement of nos of fighters from the IAF.

P.S it is the MRCA / MMRCA not MCA. MCA is the Medium Combat Aircraft project of the DRDO/ADA (also known as the AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft) a 5th Gen LO fighter being planned and in development.

 

[Twinblade]

This news can't be good for a force which is trying to cut a heavy crash rate-

Shortage of trainer aircraft, so IAF cuts flying time of rookie pilots to one-third - Express India


Ona totally unrelated note here is an interesting tribute to the Mig-21-

My Fair Lady -

http://www.indiarightsonline.com/Sabrang/india5.nsf/4e95df6ea70fe4a7e5257713005deca6/34fdef9d26fafbcc65256e0e004757ce?OpenDocument

The number of sorties is very impressive!

And people wonder why MoD procurement policies invite so much vitriol from those who follow them.

HT-10:- Cancelled
HTT-35:- Cancelled
HTT-40:- In works (Initiated only when it was obvious the Deepak won't last long)

HPT-32 Deepak- grounded, mostly due to age.
Pilatuc PC-7: In negotiation stage after a lengthy evaluation.

It is slowly becoming a trend in MoD and the armed forces to starve or put exceptionally high standards for domestic projects and when the situation becomes too dire, go for imports, which have to go through their own lengthy evaluations and negotiations. The story is getting too repetitive.

The MCA tender results may get cancelled because neither of the entries (Rafale and EF) can meet the cost requirements. This would mean that they would have to either reconsider some of the dropped entries, or decrease the number of airplanes.

Lenta.ru: Îðóæèå: Èíäèéñêèé èñòðåáèòåëüíûé òåíäåð îêàçàëñÿ ïîä óãðîçîé ñðûâà

That's Rosoboronexport's views. I have my doubts about the veracity of claims coming from one of the competitors about others.

 

[gf0012-aust]

The MCA tender results may get cancelled because neither of the entries (Rafale and EF) can meet the cost requirements. This would mean that they would have to either reconsider some of the dropped entries, or decrease the number of airplanes.

I'm not so sure that this is a legitimate view

All submissions are subjected to a prelim review to ensure that they meet the Govts basis of compliance.

If cost was an absolute constraint then they would have been eliminated at prelim review

Cost is usually considered last, and even if they are high (and I've seen submissions where one vendor was 2.5 times higher than another competitor) then they will still be assessed on technical merit first. Govt always takes the view that they can negotiate a price down as while they are still in negotiation they can default to the next attractive bid

i'd say that the articles view is spurious.

 

[dragonfire]

MMRCA update:

Reports now suggest that the L1 Bidder would be declared by the 3rd week of January, 2012.

 

[dragonfire]

Cost is usually considered last, and even if they are high (and I've seen submissions where one vendor was 2.5 times higher than another competitor) then they will still be assessed on technical merit first. Govt always takes the view that they can negotiate a price down as while they are still in negotiation they can default to the next attractive bid

i'd say that the articles view is spurious.

The very fact that the INR has taken a good thrashing at the hands of the USD in the recent weeks itself is expected to increase the cost from the budgeted 11 Billion USD to 15 Billion USD

 

[gf0012-aust]

The very fact that the INR has taken a good thrashing at the hands of the USD in the recent weeks itself is expected to increase the cost from the budgeted 11 Billion USD to 15 Billion USD

Countries normally factor in currency contingency funds - so currency fluctuations are usually considered separately.

 

[swerve]

The very fact that the INR has taken a good thrashing at the hands of the USD in the recent weeks itself is expected to increase the cost from the budgeted 11 Billion USD to 15 Billion USD

How would that affect the USD price?

If country A is buying something from country B, & it's priced in currency B, fluctuations in the exchange rate have no effect on the listed price. They affect the amount of currency A needed, not currency B. A fall in the INR against the USD puts the price of USD priced imports up in INR, not USD.

And in any case, Rafale & Eurofighter costs are in euros & sterling, not USD.