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Indian Military Aviation; News, Updates & Discussions

Discussion in 'Air Force & Aviation' started by Twinblade, May 13, 2011.

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  1. Twinblade

    Twinblade New Member

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    I wonder what happened to the old thread, anyhow;

    I am starting a new thread to cover military aviation in Indian Air Force, Indian Army and Indian Navy.

    Here's some food for your thought..

    Indian Armed forced to induct 1000 helos by 2020

    Perhaps the largest helo procurement by any country in the coming decade.
     
  2. Preceptor

    Preceptor Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The old thread has been closed/hidden while the Mod team does cleanup on it, following some problematic posting. Once it has been completed, the thread should be re-opened and available for members to see and post to it. In the mean time, this thread can remain open (if kept clean) and will be merged into the other Indian Air Force thread once that has been moderated.
    -Preceptor
     
  3. Haavarla

    Haavarla Active Member

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    In Zhukovsky was presented PAK FA program and MiG-29UPG for the Indian Air Force

    Moscow, May 23. Today in the Flight Research Institute. Gromov in Zhukovsky near Moscow was presented and flight demonstration of promising air complex tactical aircraft (PAK FA) and the upgraded fighter aircraft carrier-based MiG-29UPG Indian delegation headed by the commander of the Air Force Pradeep Vasant Naik (Pradeep Vasant Naik).

    ÎÀÎ "Êîìïàíèÿ "Ñóõîé" - Íîâîñòè - Íîâîñòè êîìïàíèè
     
  4. Twinblade

    Twinblade New Member

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  5. gf0012-aust

    gf0012-aust Grumpy Old Man Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    Miffed Russia upsets India

    Miffed Russia upsets India
    June 05, 2011 4:15:44 AM

    PNS/PTI | New Delhi/Moscow

    Longstanding defence and strategic relations between India and Russia are under strain with Moscow calling off a scheduled joint naval exercise at short notice in an apparent move to express its displeasure over New Delhi exploring global markets for weapons procurement.

    The Russian decision has been slammed by country defence experts and the media while the Indian Navy is also unhappy with the development.

    The incident took place late in April when five Indian Navy warships sailed for waters off Vladivostok for the joint naval exercise. The Indian contingent reached Vladivostok and made a ‘port call’ before returning home after Russians abruptly called off the exercise.

    This action was sharply criticised by Russian defence experts who said calling off the exercise by Moscow was “simply stupid when several countries are waiting in queue to hold such an exercise with India.”

    While the Russians later said the exercise was called off due to the nuclear disaster in Japan following the tsunami, sources here said on Wednesday that several Russian warships were later seen carrying out combat drills in the waters off Vladivostok.

    Peeved at the snub, the Indian Navy lodged a protest along with a detailed report to the Indian Defence Ministry, sources said adding the External Affairs Ministry was also apprised of the facts. Incidentally, the schedule for the joint exercise was planned months in advance, they said.

    The development has put a question mark over the joint Army exercise ‘Indra’ between the two countries later this year. Focussed on honing anti-terrorism drills in urban and rural scenario, the two sides have held some preliminary meetings to plan the exercise but the dates are yet to be finalised.

    It was learnt that Russia, which is the biggest arms supplier to India, is unhappy with New Delhi now exploring the Western world for procuring weapons and critical spare parts. Regular supply of spare parts from Russia has been a problem for the last one decade since the disintegration of Soviet Union and the issue has cropped up many times in talks between top political leadership of both countries.

    Moreover, Russia now prefers to pitch for its equipment and the Indian security establishment decided some years back to expand its vendor base to inject more competition and get a better deal for lesser money, sources said.

    A top Russian defence expert has said Moscow is not taking defence interaction with India seriously and described the cancellation of a naval drill recently with it as “simply stupid.”

    “While other nations wait in the queue to develop military interaction with India, Russia is not behaving seriously. There is no need to be surprised that India is more and more turning towards western partners —- at least more serious and stable,” said Mikhail Barabanov, editor of Moscow Defence Brief monthly, was quoted as saying by financial daily ‘Vedomosti.’

    He said: “The Russian decision to cancel war games with the main military-technical partner is simply stupid.”

    Barabanov also noted the Russian and Indian Air forces have never carried out joint drills, “probably because the Indian pilots on their Russian built SU-30MKI fighters will easily win over the Russian pilots, with inferior aircraft and less flying experience.”

    “It is noteworthy that Indian pilots with SU-30MKI fighters have participated several times in joint drills with USAF and other major Western nations,” he said.

    Another major daily Nezavisimaya Gazeta notes the Russian decision to cancel a war drill at the last moment is believed as Moscow’s “snub” to India for rejection of MiG-35 fighters in the IAF’s tender for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), in which French Rafale and European Eurofighter Typhoon have been shortlisted.

    Tatiana Shaumyan, director of Centre for Indian Studies of the Science Academy’s Oriental Institute, said the “poor planning” of the Russian side may be detrimental to the defence cooperation.

    “Russia and India have several decade-long traditions of geopolitical, trade, economic and defence co-operation. The military-technical cooperation had been the one of the main pillars of the Russian-Indian relations. And now in this crucial sphere a ‘snag’ has occurred probably due to bad planning by the Russian side,” Shaumyan said.

    She cautioned that it could affect the interaction of armed forces of the two “friendly States.”
     
  6. Twinblade

    Twinblade New Member

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    Indian Deal For Ten Boeing C-17s Cleared

     
  7. Twinblade

    Twinblade New Member

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    Peeved IAF Looks Beyond Russia To Revive Ilyushins

     
  8. Twinblade

    Twinblade New Member

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    Something doesn't feel right, by forfeiting training with India, Russians lose a chance to train with armed forces, which :
    a. Know their equipment as well as Russians
    b. Have access to substantial amount of western tech
    c. Have a doctrine closer to western nations than that of ex-soviet block and PRC (at least navy and air force)
    d. Have been in a constant state of deployment for COIN ops in every possible environment.
    e. Have been a higher state of readiness for coventional war .
    f. are your biggest client and whose acceptance of your hardware means increased sales to other nations as well.
    g. are actively participating in some of your key defence projects.

    OTOH, GF, can you speculate on as to why is the spares situation with Russia deteriorating ? My sources tell me money is not an issue, Indians are ready to pay what Russians are asking for. The problem is more severe with Ilyushin and Migoyan than with Sukhoi. Migoyan might not getting much orders but Ilyushin might just have kicked themselves out of the IAF tanker competition. Too bad IAF selected IL-76 as the platform for Phalcon AEWCS.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  9. Feanor

    Feanor Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Mikoyan and Ilyushin are both in the hole. TAPOiCh is in very bad shape. When Aviastar-SP takes over Il-76 (476) production this might improve. When Mikoyan takes itself out of the hole is unclear.
     
  10. Haavarla

    Haavarla Active Member

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    I don't get it..
    If the current deal to get spares parts for the IAF Mig-29 fleet`is so strained, then why on earth are they procuring even more Mig-29K and the go ahead on those Mig-29 UPG upgrade?

    It makes even less sense if what Twinbladesays, that 'money is not an issue'.
    If money was not an issue, then India could just aimed for F-35C.

    Are you sure its just that the exercise was put off, cause due to the huge Tzunami disaster in Japan and the last thing both India and Russia wanted was to show up in various press around the world showing an 'show of force' when Japan clearly have enough on their hands..
    which would not put neighter India nor Russia in any particulary good light.
     
  11. Feanor

    Feanor Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't actually know, but some reasons that would make sense to me are unification of spare parts and munitions. The original MiG-29K purchase was tied to the Gorshkov deal, so when time came for more carrier-borne fighters it made little sense to search for an alternative. Upgrading the in-service Fulcrums is partially inertia, as there isn't an immediate replacement, and there is a pro-Russian lobby in India.
     
  12. Twinblade

    Twinblade New Member

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    Actually the spares situation of Mig-29 is way better than 21 or 27, because several deals have been made regarding production of spares locally.
     
  13. Twinblade

    Twinblade New Member

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    Money for spares isn't an issue :p it is for F-35B
     
  14. Feanor

    Feanor Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Interesting. So what do they still import?
     
  15. Twinblade

    Twinblade New Member

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    Ans : A major part.

    The situation for Mig-29's is marginally better (given higher priority over other Migs for delivery as it is an air superiority fighter) After early 90's when collapse of the SU grounded almost a third of Mig-29's due to lack of spares, India maintains probably the largest inventory of Mig spares. With Russians reviving their aircrafts as well and increasing their flying hours, i would not be surprised if Mig prioritizes domestic customers and given the poor state of mig they might not be in a position to increase spares production.
     
  16. gf0012-aust

    gf0012-aust Grumpy Old Man Staff Member Verified Defense Pro

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    regular reliable supply has always been a problem. money hasn't been an issue so I would guess that its the same old inefficient supply chain problem

    eg I worked in a number of companies (and had my own for a while) where we/I would regularly be approached and asked to act as a broker to source parts.

    with my own company I was asked to source components for BMP's, BTR's T-72's, Mig-27's and Ilyushin Mays/Coots

    My indian contacts were always seeking extra suppliers to balance out what they regarded as a russian supplier reliability problem. - it didn't help that official russian supply prices were over inflated.
     
  17. dragonfire

    dragonfire New Member

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    I have always wondered about this issue. Why does often one see inflation of prices on contracts already signed, while global recession, gas prices and inflation could be blamed to a certain extent, i have always felt that Russian end-supply costs in the last decade for the same products have sky rocketed from the originally signed-up costs.

    The Su-30MKI now is costing over a Hundred Mill $ (although this could be because of yet un-specified upgrades ;) ) whereas earlier it was only a fraction of the same. Same case with the Gorshkov deal etc

    OTOH the American and European products seem to come with very high costs from the beginning (flabbergastingly so) but they don't seem to have the problem of inflation of already contracted deals
     
  18. vijayender

    vijayender New Member

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    India to buy 10 Boeing C-17 heavy-lift aircraft

    Welcoming India's decision to buy 10 Boeing C-17 heavy-lift aircraft for its Air Force, US-India business body on Monday said it is a testament to New Delhi's confidence in having the US as its long-term defence partner.
     
  19. Feanor

    Feanor Super Moderator Staff Member

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    That's a result of lowballing the initial contracts, as well as in many cases a real un-anticipated growth of costs because of poor state of production facilities. To be honest I'm not sure what's going on with the MKI cost spike, but with the Gorshkov those two seem to be the main culprits.
     
  20. surpreme

    surpreme Member

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    Good choice this will help India Air Force alot. Do you know what the details of the deal like training, maintainance, and spare parts? Part of any good deal requires that you get know how to maintain and to operating them on your own.