World War 3

Defcon 6

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P.A.F said:
That ain't the fact of the matter dude. Billions of people across the world including those in the US itself fail to admire the USA's foreign policies which is why they staged demonstrations. I love the US as a place. the place and the people are great. what i don't like is the foreign policy which most people know about in this forum and elsewhere. Now would the US like it if China steped up into hawaii and built its military there and tried making it independant. NO!!!.

Lol. But, Hawaii is part of the United States. Taiwan has been a free republic for quite some time. They don't want china there because china will totally change their system of government. Taiwan doesn't belong to China. China simply claims it does.

I have heard off all those media groups. but surely not every single american reads the NY times. U really expect every beer belly new yorker or american watching baseball to end up reading the NY times:D .
I am no hypocrite. i'm just layin fair. if one has the right to do something why can't the other have the right.
The NYT is the most read paper in America with millions of papers in circulation. The UK only has the BBC. So I guess we aren't the blind folded ones?

There sure haven't been any wars since the US has been pestering the rest of the world. correct!!!!!. however there actions have caused countries like china to build up a larger military in order to protect itself from a threat.
China has the right to do so.

Well theres nothing else to discuss in this thread except politics. The title says it all. It doesn't matter if Tiawan does or doesn't want to be with china. the fact is that china is prepared to get it back and at the moment the US is in no possition to attack at the moment.
Anyway if you don't wanna discuss politics then change the subject
I don't mind politics, in fact I really like to. But from what I read next the forum name it says not to. So as long as people keep cool and the mods and admins are fine with it...


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Defcon 6 said:
Lol. But, Hawaii is part of the United States. Taiwan has been a free republic for quite some time.

Well, Hawaii has been a free country for itself as well before the US simply seized it. I recommend reading about the so called "Bayonet Constitution".

They don't want china there because china will totally change their system of government. Taiwan doesn't belong to China. China simply claims it does.
The situation on Taiwan isnt precisely that clear unfortunately. In the recent past the voices calling for absolute and everlasting independence became fewer. Take for example the recent visits of the two major parties of Taiwan in China. That and the many already existing commercial ties between Taiwan and the PRC show that this is no temporary phenomenon. And as for if or if not Taiwan is belonging to China: well, until some years ago even the taiwanese KMT, party of the very founders of todays Taiwan claimed to represent the "real" China and called for reunification.
They even havent to totally change their system of government: Hongkong clearly shows that.

The NYT is the most read paper in America with millions of papers in circulation. The UK only has the BBC. So I guess we aren't the blind folded ones?

You are not really serious here, right?

Defcon 6

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Excuse me but if you write, that all the money is in the state (true) and all this money goes to the military (not really), when you wonder what importance Taiwan has for the PRC and are simply evaluating strategic importance, when you even claim that Taiwan doesnt really produce that much, how does that sound? Well, for me it sounds exactly like your understanding of chinese politics and history really is limited. So what the heck is wrong with that? In this forum I am surely not known as being offensive to other users and I am not now.

I did not write that all the money goes into the military. However quite a bit of it does compared to the U.S spending budget. About your statement about limitations, you generalized and made assumptions from offhanded comments. And the offhanded comments were just to get the ball rolling.

Actually you gave me the very same impression. May we review your first post in this thread? You stated some "facts" about China, you asked a specific question. You did not, however, gave any hint for what exactly you intended this thread to be about. That was actually the reason why the Webmaster asked you the respective question in this very thread.

Yes but I even labeled them as fictional. Check previous post. And now his question has been answered.

Yes, it is. However there is a slight difference between relative and total numbers. The inofficial military budget of the PRC is estimated to be somewhere in the region of 100 bln US-$. Even considering PPP the USA undeniably have a considerably larger military funding in total numbers. You wonder why I brought up the US? Well, isnt it the very right of the PRC to modernise its defences? Especially considering that the overwhelming part of these forces is far from being up to date. They are even reducing their numbers in all aspects, MBT, fighters etc., in order to accomplish the objective to get a modern fighting force as desired by every country.

The reason I didn't want to get into politics is because I don't care if they build up their military. It's their right to do so. What I'm saying is that I was using exactly that as the reason for this entire scenario.

That depends very much on 1st: what the exact reasons for this war are, 2nd: what the reaction of the US are (see 1st) and in what manner such an operation against Taiwan would be successful. The primary objective for the PLA would be to seize Taiwan under all circumstances, if otherwise the complete independence of the island is the only possibility. Beyond that there is no sense in any chinese military operation, since it would not be in their very interest.

1st, reason isn't important. The scenario is an invasion of Taiwan. Which causes the U.S to intervene. Which causes China to invade Japan. Which causes North Korea to jump up and down and go nuts. It is not very realistic, but then war usually isn't. From my little "fictional" time line of events there, you can see that is quite the beginning of a world war 3.

Because the U.S might use Japan to launch attacks Japan gets invaded, and of course the U.S will respond to that with its military bases located there. Then North Korea might take the chance and come across the de-militarized zone and into South Korea. The U.K then may decide to come to the aid of the U.S, and respectivelly countries might start taking sides.

Then Russia might decide to help China out, South Africa sends an army, the crap hits the fan, then France surrenders.

I don't know what the reasons are or what exactly happens. I don't know what the U.S will do because thats what I wanted you guys to come up with yourselves.

Secondly your thinking too realistically. It wasn't a very reasonable thing to do for Japan to attack Pearl Harbor in WW2. Human beings are not reasonable. This is why I don't like politics, because nobody can win. Everyone has a different opinion.

Military tactics on the other hand are. So if you were china turrin, and you wanted Taiwan...what would you do first? Send ships? Strike against Taiwan or U.S.N?

Believe me, I am aware of that declaration. However you should know that this paper is very much a derelict of the past. It dates back as far as when PRC-Taiwan-relations where extremely strained (about seven years ago...chinese adminstration is quite slow sometimes).
Yes, but my point is that underestimating someone can be a fatal mistake. Which is why I created this entire scenario.

Therefore the PRC felt that their point of view needed to be implemented in means of legislation. However the bill said nothing new about PRC's course of action, it only confirmed what they where saying all the time anyways: Military action remains the very last possibility when all other ways and means of peaceful reunification efforts fail. It simply serves to increase the legal legitimation of such a course of action, thats all.

Exactly. So military invasion cannot be dismissed, which has been my point. Hitler said that the prime reason for invading Russia during WW2 was because Germany needed more farm land to feed its people. My point being, nothing is ever a sure thing. War is not reasonable, and so one reason may be given when yet, another is actually the truth.

Just wanted to clarify as for your scenario: it has to take into account that exactly this will happen, so Taiwan has to declare formal independence. Under these circumstances however even the character of the US-intervention remains questionable, so direct military support most likely would not happen.
But you cannot rule it out as you have said. So this thread continues on?

Defcon 6

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Okay, so the BBC isn't the only news media in the UK. In that case I made my point that it's stupid to say that the U.S is blind folded.


Troll Hunter
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And so it ends...

Defcon, I posted a reply in this thread. Try not to ignore such replies from mods or my self in the future.

Locking, any future threads on this subject will be deleted.