Why PAF didnt get Gripens

[SABRE]

A few days ago after a long debate on Gripen, I found email address of Gripen International's Communications Director Mr.Owe Wagermark.
This is what he replied to my email.

1) My Email:

Dear Mr. Wagermark;

A month ago media in Pakistan reported that PAF (Pakistan AirForce) is
considering to buy AWACS, SAAB-2000 & SAAB JAS39-Gripen for Sweden and on July 4th our President is due to visit Sweden for this deal.
I am a member of a defence forum www.defencetalk.com where the subject of PAF buying Gripen mountain hicked to the peek.
About few days ago our Televised media confirmed the purchase of 14
SAAB-2000 Planes and 4 AWACs from Sweden but there is still now news on
Gripen which interest people more than any thing.

Can you confirm wheather Swedish government has rejected the Gripen deal or wheather the deal is on or wheather no such deal has taken place?


2)Mr. Wagermark's Reply:


Dear Gripen Friend,
The Gripen discussions are not at all on the Swedish governments table and
consequently they can not reject an issue that even not is on their table! - so therefor the whole issue is way out of proportion in media/debate.

Best regards!

Owe Wagermark
Communications Director
Gripen International

-------------------------------------------------

So we didnt get Gripens because we never asked for them.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Why we didnt get Gripens

pretty grim reply : . anyway we should go for the french aircraft now! where highly likeely not to get f-16's. rafale or mirage will be good.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Why we didnt get Gripens

So we didnt get Gripens because we never asked for them.

Hence once of my prev comments about an irresponsible media fueling rumours and people accepting it in good faith as "truth"

It was also why I tried to give some logical reasons as to why it may not happen and some people became even more excited at me.

Lesson No: 1. Always wait for the Govt press release.

 

[SABRE]

Re: Why we didnt get Gripens

What worries me is that we havent even asked for a front line jet yet. We r still evaluating. May be Gripen has been evaluated but for some reason government is delaying the purchase. So far PAF is making no effort in purchasing new Jets. ACM says new jets in 3 yrs. I wounder what they are lookin at.

P.A.F Mirage2000-5 are highly likely to be inducted in PAF inventory but not as the main Primary front liner but secondary. Not many knw that PAF is considering F-18. They will get F-16s from Belgium but time is still unknwn.
Rafeal and Ef-2000 have SW Glitchs. If we havent bid for Gripens we should now. It is a great jet.
Besides upgraded PAF mirage3 and 5 are as good as new mirage2000 so PAF is in no hurry for buying them.

 

[srirangan]

SABRE,
do you really think they're gonna discuss military hardware related negotiations to some guy who emails them?

 

[SABRE]

SABRE,
do you really think they're gonna discuss military hardware related negotiations to some guy who emails them?

Yes

Some guy happens to be a director communications. All info passes through him and at times company's director of communications are present during any kind of negociations. After all they r the ppl who have to face the press. Besides all the Gripen presentations are related to him. If Musharaf had asked for Gripens than he would have certainly gone through the presentation & if he had the director communications would have known.

Director Communication of SAAB has already visited Pakistan and Musharaf in Sweden along with high ranking Swedesh officers when Pakistan formally bid for the SAAB2000 and AWACS. So if Director Communication of SAAB is such an importent person than director communication of Gripen would hve to be no less.
Deesault Director Communication also visited India before selling the mirage2000-5. So these r importent ppl.

 

[yasin_khan]

I was dreaming for grippens flying in Pakistan.If grippens are not coming then go for rafle.

 

[SABRE]

I was dreaming for grippens flying in Pakistan.If grippens are not coming then go for rafle.

Rafle is like a hard heavy bomber. It was made to carry heavy wapons that mirage couldnt or which effected the sprinting speed of Mirges. Besides it has some flwas and software glitchs.

I still want to see Gripens. I think Pakistan doesnt want to rush into things. They first want to establish a strong friendship and military relations with Sweden and in two years of time InshAllah they will buy Gripens without any trouble and also its technology. This will make Pakistan Gripen dealer in whole of Asia. Revenue for both Pakistan and Sweden. I think even China would like to buy some of these Jets no matter what their policies this Jet fits their criteria.

 

[srirangan]

Yes

Some guy happens to be a director communications. All info passes through him and at times company's director of communications are present during any kind of negociations.

I'm not sayin' that he doesn't have the info, my question is why will he tell you? Are you married to his daughter? His job forces him not to divulge details to outsiders, and I hardly believe he's gonna tell someone who just emails him one fine day.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: Why we didnt get Gripens

well we should bloody ask for them then. i swear man the can see the gripens fit into the PAF so nicely alongside the AWAC's. and that would make a good force for all types of missions. it would be such a shame if we just left a high-tech jet like the gripen. :? . 3 years is to short. PAf need the jets NOW. :cop

 

[SABRE]

Re: Why we didnt get Gripens

Lesson No: 1. Always wait for the Govt press release.

Behold the 1st commandment.

 

[SABRE]

Yes

Some guy happens to be a director communications. All info passes through him and at times company's director of communications are present during any kind of negociations.

I'm not sayin' that he doesn't have the info, my question is why will he tell you? Are you married to his daughter? His job forces him not to divulge details to outsiders, and I hardly believe he's gonna tell someone who just emails him one fine day.

Listen if you dont want to believe this than dont. His job is to give all the general information to public and press(Hide only confidential). Do u even knw what director communication is? oh wait u r computer guy what do u knw abt running a business and giving an information to public. Its a Business Administrators Job and thats what I do. Not only I am a business student I am an intern for my company's communication manager.

If you want me to farward you my mail I can do that as a proof, but whats the use you just wont back off would you.

 

[Libyan]

Re: Why we didnt get Gripens

Told ya so!



Sweden will not sell pakistan advanced fighter aircraft.


Sweden has a history of strict neutrality

Th united states had diffuculty buying anti tank weapons from sweden even though the united states supplies sweden with rocket engines,and jet engines.


Pakistan has almost no chance of new purchases


lets see


China is willing to sell almost anything


South africa does not manufacture fighter aircraft, the denel cheetah dmIII upgrade is not completely south african


Israel will not sell to pakistan


Russia is an ally of India and will not sell to Pakistan


Ukraine does not manufacture fighter aircraft, perhaps pakistan can purchase some old su-20 or mig-23's

France is selling the Mirage 2000 to India, which means that if Pakistan was to buy the mirage 2000 they would be facing the exact same aircraft in combat, who knows if the two aircraft can even identify the other as a threat?


the UK it highly unlikely that pakistan can afford to buy the Tornado or Eurofighter or that the nations of europe would allow pakistan to purchase them


the US , The united states will have hundreds of f-16's,f-15's and f-18a's which are soon to be replaced they will be on the market at fractions of their cost,

The US will not sell to pakistan due to f-16s being flown to china for technical exploitation by China.


this leaves pakistan needing Chinese aircraft , or perhaps buying f-5e copies from Iran.

 

[corsair7772]

Oh for cryin out aloud! whats this poilicy about not selling fighters in war zones? where else do you sell your weapons? Gandhis neighburhood? Its all a big hippocracy. If wed offered to buy more aircraft w/o price reduction you shouldve seen em come running for our pockets.

And libyan, were trying to counter Su-30s and mirages here, thus we do it with J-10s and Rafales and watever. NOT su-20s and f-5es.

Since were not gettin the gripen we could go for the J-10 and the chinese built version of the Su-30. Aparently its 15% inferior to the Indian su-30 when fitted with chinese avionincs which isnt so bad at all.

 

[mysterious]

Re: Why we didnt get Gripens

Well Pakistan never uses Chinese avionics so we can be rest assured that if we get the J-10 or the Chinese built Su-30 then we'd put some western avionics on to them. Well for people who still believe that Gripen was 'denied' to PAF should read the darn thread again! Things get 'denied' when you ask for them; when in the first place, the Gripen wasn't asked for, how the hell did it get 'denied'? Sabre's efforts should be acknowledged that he finally got hold of someone important to tell him the real story. Thnx man! Peace out. :smokingc:

 

[corsair7772]

great goin sabre. i rmmbr mailin ravi rikhye ( a VERY controversial indian defence analyst) once askin em for a possible orbat of indo pak armed forces in 2010. real nice guy. sent me a whole list. these darn swedes however are anuther story. a bunch of buisness man really. nuthing else.

I have my doubts wether we asked for the gripens or not. Cause my dads friend in the PAF actually went to sweden with a team from the airforce to evaluate it. so basically we did evaluate it but we didnt ask for it. Mustve found a glitch somewhere think. Either political or engineering wise.

 

[srirangan]

His job is to give all the general information to public

:lolol: These people donot give out any significant pieces of information to the press/public unless ordered by higher-up's/govt. Defence deals are highly secretive matters and I don't expect anyone responsible to give out actual details to somebody who emails them.

 

[srirangan]

I don't think Chinese will sell the J10 to Pak. The Chinese had already refused the J10's to N.Korea and for the Chinese it's a great deal of pride to have J10 as an exclusive fighter for the PLAAF only.

The main reasons for the development of FC-1/JF-17 was export. They wouldn't export the J10 so they needed to build another fighter that they are comfortable in exporting.

 

[corsair7772]

I think it was still pretty swell for sabre to have mailed em anyway. And the J-10 was obviously refused to N. Korea cuz of the tense situation where an arms deal would have spelt bad for the chinese. Also maybe they got wind of the credit terms the N Koreans were going to demand. Its obvious why they didnt sell there. But rest assured the J-10 is for export as well. china knows that a lot of countries leaving the US circle will be looking for arms from either Russia or China and china would be only too happy to get some hard currency. Thus a sale to pakistan is obvious. We shud have 36 J-10s split into 3 squadrons by 2010.

 

[SABRE]

I don't think Chinese will sell the J10 to Pak. The Chinese had already refused the J10's to N.Korea and for the Chinese it's a great deal of pride to have J10 as an exclusive fighter for the PLAAF only.

The main reasons for the development of FC-1/JF-17 was export. They wouldn't export the J10 so they needed to build another fighter that they are comfortable in exporting.

China has no interest in NK. Pakistan provides China with lot of help. China will sell Pakistan from anything to every thing. Pak China relations are not that like of Russia and India. Pakistani ppl give alot of Respect to Chinese ppl and same goes in China.
J-10 was made by China but they recieved a lot help from Pakistan (in form of F-16 detrails and its broken trunk) and besides when China will need to upgrade the J-10 with Western equipment they will have to contact Pakistan.
On the other hand any country that makes a jet sells a jet. They have to pay off their dues, this includes USA.


BTW this is from another source whom I farward my mail. He says Gripen are evaluated. They are still on top of the list. Why werent they asked for is something he will have to confirm. But the main products Pak government asked for from Sweden were AWACS. SAAB2000 are being puchased from SAAB directly. No technology transfer here of anything is on the mind of PakistanAirforce. Pakistan has empty inventory for 80 new Jets. 20 of them are going to be Mirage2000-5 which are like 90% confirmed. 60 are suppose to be Gripens, which he says now might just be asked once AWACS and SAAB2000 lands on Pakistani soil.
On concern of SriRangan he told me Director Communication has nothing to hide when something is rejected or approved by the company or the government so the email I recieved has 95% chance of being correct and even if he is hiding something that means Swedish Governmet knws abt Pakistan's interst in Gripens and r currently keeping Pakistan on hold, which means they have not rejected the jets to Pakistan at all and are making some policies for Pakistan which if PAkistan excepts than Gripen would be sold to them. But he tells me to stick with the content of the email.