Which is the World's Best Tank??

[gf0012-aust]

All tanks are designed to some extent with specific theatres of operation in mind - especially if they are indigenous.

From that perspective it makes it very difficult to start comparisons

eg The Arjun has heavy german and english influence in the design
the Al-Khalid has a strong russian and chinese influece.

if you look at the designs it becomes apparent that both countries armour doctrine is different.

to get an appreciation of the dissimilarities then its useful to look at the armour doctrine of the Warsaw Pact and NATO - there are some useful clues in there.

Dumbing it down to "my tank is faster, better, has a longer gun" etc oversimplifies the issues.

Tacticians and strategists emphasise logistics - not weapons

 

[dabrownguy]

I really dont think speed matters a lot when u're engaged in combat in the marshy n soggy land mass of sindh and punjab! If u're telling me India made a tank that would do good in Iraq, then that would hardly impress me as i dont think india wants to make its equipment with countries thousands of miles away from it in mind, rather than its neighbours and the land situation there

India funded the Arjun project back in the 70's when they realized the limited war sceinro in the Rajistan desert. The tank was called MBT-80 and was supposed to be inducted in the 80's but unfortunatly IA changed the tanks requirments and much of the tank had to be changed to meet the new high requirments. What they changed in the tank was the 120 mm smoothbore to 120 rifled gun and the wieght as well as the engine. Now the tank did fail its trails with a 1400 hp engine in the Rajistan desert. There were a lot of hicups with the Arjun but eventually every problem was fixed with a lot of foriegn help. The tank now uses 1400 hp German engine. Isreal has contributed a lot to the project. Arjun can fight on desert terrian easily. Punjabi isn't marshy! I lived there and its pretty hot and dry but the farms are pretty marshy, any tank can move around in Punjab with ease expecially Arjun. Now when tanks usaully fight they'll be moving and firing but that hardly happens because India has changed its armor doctrine from tank on tank battles which Pakistan still uses to a new doctrine with ATGM, helecopters and tanks. Only tanks can stop tank attacks so they're still needed because they become a unbreakable wall. Arjun won't require to move very much because it will shoot the enemy tank first. FSAPDS has a range of 4.6 km the LAHAT ATGM has a range of 6 km, so Arjun is more like a sniper.

 

[Red aRRow]

India has changed its armor doctrine from tank on tank battles which Pakistan still uses.

Any proof of that or are you just making that up by yourself??

BTW the Arjun uses a 1500 hp German engine...not a 1400 hp. It's basically the same engined by with an additional supercharger.

 

[dabrownguy]

Quote:

India has changed its armor doctrine from tank on tank battles which Pakistan still uses.


Any proof of that or are you just making that up by yourself??

BTW the Arjun uses a 1500 hp German engine...not a 1400 hp. It's basically the same engined by with an additional supercharger.

Read it on a forum. I have no proof but it seems to be true. India is interested in Milan 2, Spike and Nag ATGM's while Pakistan only inducted AK. Besides its obvious that tank on tank battles are rare.

 

[saraab]

i dont get it dabrownguy

first u say

Now the tank did fail its trails with a 1400 hp engine in the Rajistan desert.

and then

Arjun can fight on desert terrian easily.

u say punjab isnt marshi but the farms there are pretty marshi. well, since u've lived there u may know that there is farming all over punjab
so i dont find much place in punjab which in not marshi :roll

tell me that u didnt mean what i understood

 

[Red aRRow]

while Pakistan only inducted AK.

And the Al-Zarrar and the T-80 UD and Baktar Shikan ATGMs etc. etc.
I don't get your point.

 

[dabrownguy]

u say punjab isnt marshi but the farms there are pretty marshi. well, since u've lived there u may know that there is farming all over punjab
so i dont find much place in punjab which in not marshi

tell me that u didnt mean what i understood

Any tank can fight on farms. Its not that marshy their are roads.

And the Al-Zarrar and the T-80 UD and Baktar Shikan ATGMs etc. etc.
I don't get your point.

T-80 was for the Punjab region. They never thought about fighting large battles in the Rajistan desert until now.

 

[saraab]

i still dont get it.
are u trying to justify what u earlier said or am i unable to understand simple english :help :help :help

 

[mysterious]

Either thing could be true :lolol

 

[dabrownguy]

:mrgreen dude, I don't know. Think for your self, this is a free world after all.

 

[saraab]

dude, I don't know. Think for your self, this is a free world after all.

now i get ur point :lolol :lolol

 

[tatra]

I think the poll outcome reflects the demographic composition of this forum's audience more than it does the actual tank capabilities ...

 

[mysterious]

that doesn't have to be necessarily true.

 

[Indus]

I think the poll outcome reflects the demographic composition of this forum's audience more than it does the actual tank capabilities ...

That is so true yaar.. If this were really a poll of Worlds' #1 tank, then Arjun MK1, Al-Khalid, and T-98 should not have received any votes at all..

 

[Gremlin29]

You guys are so right! I think folks confuse the word "best" with "favorite".

 

[gf0012-aust]

Hence my comments earlier about not "liking" these types of polls.

They almost universally tend to reflect the polling and political demographics without any real reference to real world scenarios, logistics, a nations ORBAT, a nations perceived threat risk, platform reliability, platform complexity etc...


I'm having similar grief in another forum where the French insist that the Leclerc is the best tank in the world, all the empirical evidence in the world, all the post assessment docs from other countries, all the tech team evaluations in the world (where the Leclerc failed miserably) doesn't stop them from thinking that every single instance of rejection was absolutely wrong, yadda yadda yadda.

The easiest thing is just to let them stay convinced that theirs is the best tank in the world, and not say anything if they ever go to war and get blown up. As if that happens they will be arguing that they were all "gold bb" shots and not indicative of a real war.

:eek

 

[Gremlin29]

Arguing with the French? You silly man! :hehe

 

[ivan]

i thought that challenger 2 was best :?

 

[gf0012-aust]

In the tank trials run by the Australian Govt the 3 end contenders were the Abrams D, Chally 2 and LeoA4.

In some areas the Chally 2 was superior to the others. In the main the Leo2A4 was the preferred platform of choice by the tankers. The Govt was supportive of the Abrams.

Arguably, the Leo2A6 is regarded as the most powerful tank in the world, followed by the Leo2A5 and A4, The 3 tanks are quite close in all respects.

Personally I would have preferred the Leo2A4 with an A5 upgrade. But it's irrelevant now.

But, the Abrams and the Chally 2 share the record for the longest kill, Abrams are also the first tanks to be recorded with a dual kill from a single shot. ie one round passed through 2 x T72's at close range.

IIRC the Chally 2 has a better record at surviving multiple RPG strikes. There are a number of observor reports detailing multiple strikes from RPG's with no effect on the Armour. The Chally 2 armour is regarded as being better than the M1A2's.

The Leo2A6 is regarded as the more powerful shooter, it fires conventional rounds with the same punching power as a DU round from a shorter barreled Abrams.

As you can see, there's a combination of advantages with each platform.

 

[ivan]

if the aussies needed tanks ,just ask the uk goverment , they gave a load of chally 1 to jordon for free! i might ask if i can get a free chally 2 when they are replaced :mrgreen