Vietnamese Army

Feanor

Feanor

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koxinga said:
XCB-01 is a prototype and as far as I can tell, they have not put it into production yet. Likewise, the PTH-122.
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Here's the first XCB-01 batch at the factory. So it's in some sort of LRIP. If we see it in large numbers that will be an indicator. If we don't that will also tell us something.

t.me

Танки. История и современность. Btvt.info

Во Вьетнаме изготовили первую партию БМП XCB-01. Следующим будет САУ PTH-122, а дальше, не удивлюсь, если доберутся до ПТ-76Б. Сотрудники завода Z189 демонстрируют свою продукцию высшему командованию. Завод Z189 в основном занимается кораблями Вьетнамского народного флота, Вьетнамской морской...
t.me t.me

Apparently, there are plans for 30mm canons. You are right that copying even with minor improvements of these soviet era platforms does not offer much military utility or upgrade. There are other options and manufacturers willing to offer significant tech transfer and co-production these days of far more modern platforms. If not the Koreans, various private companies like Paramount Group, Excaliber Army, Lanzar,
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It really depends on which platform too. In my opinion the BMP-1 is particularly bad as an option.

What I can infer is limited budget, especially for their land forces. Even for their T-90 purchase, all they bought was just 64, and the T-55M upgrades were besieged by funding issues (e.g the original Elbit upgrades were deemed too expensive), and they did local mods to reduce their cost but dropped a number of features T-54M3 and T-55M3 - Tank Encyclopedia

I guess and I am not an expert, but I don't think or expect PAVN be engaged in the typical maneuver type warfare with large armoured formations.
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Well... is it cheaper to copy a BMP-1 rather than a BMP-2? As to the T-90 purchase followed by a T-55 upgrade, to me this is a sign of bad planning. As far as relatively modern MBTs go, the T-90 is the cheapest option. The smart way would have been to purchase them in whatever quantity they can afford year by year. Even half of a btln per year would give a respectable fleet of 150 tanks after a decade.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Feanor said:
Here's the first XCB-01 batch at the factory. So it's in some sort of LRIP. If we see it in large numbers that will be an indicator. If we don't that will also tell us something.

t.me

Танки. История и современность. Btvt.info

Во Вьетнаме изготовили первую партию БМП XCB-01. Следующим будет САУ PTH-122, а дальше, не удивлюсь, если доберутся до ПТ-76Б. Сотрудники завода Z189 демонстрируют свою продукцию высшему командованию. Завод Z189 в основном занимается кораблями Вьетнамского народного флота, Вьетнамской морской...
t.me t.me



It really depends on which platform too. In my opinion the BMP-1 is particularly bad as an option.



Well... is it cheaper to copy a BMP-1 rather than a BMP-2? As to the T-90 purchase followed by a T-55 upgrade, to me this is a sign of bad planning. As far as relatively modern MBTs go, the T-90 is the cheapest option. The smart way would have been to purchase them in whatever quantity they can afford year by year. Even half of a btln per year would give a respectable fleet of 150 tanks after a decade.
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I assume purchasing T-90s from Russia at present in any amount is not possible?
 
Feanor

Feanor

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John Fedup said:
I assume purchasing T-90s from Russia at present in any amount is not possible?
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Not at present, but Vietnam purchased one small batch a few years before the war and there were no reports or signs of follow-on orders. Instead they proceeded with a T-55 upgrade.
 
T

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Feanor said:
Not at present, but Vietnam purchased one small batch a few years before the war and there were no reports or signs of follow-on orders. Instead they proceeded with a T-55 upgrade.
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The Upgrade was most likely much cheaper. Bangladesh did the exact same thing. Purchased one batch (44) of MBT-2000s and then had China help us Upgrde the type-59s left to Type-59G. Keeps the older tanks serviceable at much lower costs. Vietnam's economy is slightly better than ours, but they also have a higher expense as their airforce and navy is significantly bigger and better equipped.
 
Feanor

Feanor

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T.C.P said:
The Upgrade was most likely much cheaper. Bangladesh did the exact same thing. Purchased one batch (44) of MBT-2000s and then had China help us Upgrde the type-59s left to Type-59G. Keeps the older tanks serviceable at much lower costs. Vietnam's economy is slightly better than ours, but they also have a higher expense as their airforce and navy is significantly bigger and better equipped.
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It's an odd pattern. Why buy a token quantity of modern MBTs? Incompatible engines, ammo types, different FCS, and in case of war, how impactful is a small quantity like that going to be?
 
T

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Feanor said:
It's an odd pattern. Why buy a token quantity of modern MBTs? Incompatible engines, ammo types, different FCS, and in case of war, how impactful is a small quantity like that going to be?
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Well if the army have their ways they would import all new MBTs. But procurement is always a fight amongst three forces. They probably got a small batch in with the promise of a larger order later, the larger order promise never made it.

For smaller countries who are not at war, military procurement is the opposite of rational. Vietnam also seems to be more focused on the sea for understandable reasons.

Another thing could be that Vietnam after fiedling the T-90, did not feel that it provided as much of a benefit compared to upgrading older tanks. Thats what happened in our case. The MBT-2000 for us was too heavy and we decided to go for the lighter VT-5 (type-15) over more MBT-2000 orders.
 
V

Vietdefense

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koxinga said:
Reversed engineering; I was told it was what they were used to, and they wanted to stick to something that was within their technology levels.
For me, there are some obvious areas of improvement that they did have measures. For example, they made it taller, giving more room, but kept those side opening, diesel filled doors. I would have done a ramp like the M113.
The 2A28 Grom was kept because they have localised it and didn't have 30mm autoguns.
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We have just emerged from a 36-year war (the war that helped Cambodia escape the Pol Pot genocide). Vietnam is a small nation, but our military has always had to fight against powerful opponents, especially superpowers nation. It's understandable that we are following a path of national defense development that involves copying outdated Western weapon designs. 2a28 powerful than30mm autocannon, it can be destroy MBT
 
Feanor

Feanor

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Vietdefense said:
We have just emerged from a 36-year war (the war that helped Cambodia escape the Pol Pot genocide). Vietnam is a small nation, but our military has always had to fight against powerful opponents, especially superpowers nation. It's understandable that we are following a path of national defense development that involves copying outdated Western weapon designs. 2a28 powerful than30mm autocannon, it can be destroy MBT
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A BMP-1 is not by any stretch of the imagination a "western design" as it's a Soviet vehicle. The cannon in question can destroy an MBT with a shot to the rear or in some cases the side. But modern IFVs carry an ATGM that can do this much better. The 2A28 also suffers from accuracy issues, and has relatively short range. In other words what you have a slightly improved copy of a ~60 year old vehicle with better options readily available.

By the way, MBTs don't do so well when a nice long burst from an auto-cannon hits their side or rear either.
 
K

koxinga

Well-Known Member
Feanor said:
A BMP-1 is not by any stretch of the imagination a "western design" as it's a Soviet vehicle. The cannon in question can destroy an MBT with a shot to the rear or in some cases the side. But modern IFVs carry an ATGM that can do this much better. The 2A28 also suffers from accuracy issues, and has relatively short range. In other words what you have a slightly improved copy of a ~60 year old vehicle with better options readily available.

By the way, MBTs don't do so well when a nice long burst from an auto-cannon hits their side or rear either.
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Vietnam also operates some BMP-2 which might carry over some elements.

I think it is just the way Vietnam operates. They have the AT-3 Sagger / 9M14 Malyutka for decades. Their choice to replace it? CTVN-18, which appears to be a license copy of the 9M14 Malyutka with enhancements (SACLOS). Are there better options? Absolutely.

 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
@Vietdefense , if you have more interest to put photos and videos of Vietnam Defense Equipment, I suggest you make Vietnam Thread on Photo and Video sections. You don't have to put much explanation on that section. On other sections like this one, the mods in here expect members to put more context and engaging on discussion.
 
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