Ukraine plant ready to supply Pakistan with tank parts

[aaaditya]

they really are desperate and offered defence technology to india they offered heavy trucks (300 initially with licence production) and the an70t transport aircraft besides offering to upgrade pechora and osa missiles,but the 300 truck deal was involved in scandals and the an70t deal was not even considered.
wish they had offered india the t-80 before offering it to pakistan.

 

[SABRE]

they really are desperate and offered defence technology to india they offered heavy trucks (300 initially with licence production) and the an70t transport aircraft besides offering to upgrade pechora and osa missiles,but the 300 truck deal was involved in scandals and the an70t deal was not even considered.
wish they had offered india the t-80 before offering it to pakistan.

They did offer T-80s to India but India decided to buy tanks from Russia as a gap filler till they were ready with Arjun MBT. They believed Ukrainian diesal engine would not servive which for the matter of fact were actualy good for desert conditions.

Pakistan was planning Al-Khalid & Al-Zarar with China. Chinese believed in using an older but good version tank as a base to convert into newer one rather than building from the scratch. This saved time. Ukrainians later offered T-80 & Chinese were giving T-90. T-80 was good enough to be converted to Al-Zarar & T-90 to Al-Khalid. Ukrainians were given chance of military joint venture alliance with both Pakistan & China & they took it. & the relations got warmer & warmer.

Both tanks use Ukrainian diesal engine & have shown good performance in desert conditions. Good enough to be listed on many countries arms import list. Saudis have shown interest, UAE deligation saw them perform n were impressed, Iraq (according to GF) asked for Al-Khalid.

On the other hand India abondened patrolium powered engine Arjun & went for more T-90s. Which I believe was much clever move after making a mistake of refusing Ukrainians.

 

[aaaditya]

They did offer T-80s to India but India decided to buy tanks from Russia as a gap filler till they were ready with Arjun MBT. They believed Ukrainian diesal engine would not servive which for the matter of fact were actualy good for desert conditions.

Pakistan was planning Al-Khalid & Al-Zarar with China. Chinese believed in using an older but good version tank as a base to convert into newer one rather than building from the scratch. This saved time. Ukrainians later offered T-80 & Chinese were giving T-90. T-80 was good enough to be converted to Al-Zarar & T-90 to Al-Khalid. Ukrainians were given chance of military joint venture alliance with both Pakistan & China & they took it. & the relations got warmer & warmer.

Both tanks use Ukrainian diesal engine & have shown good performance in desert conditions. Good enough to be listed on many countries arms import list. Saudis have shown interest, UAE deligation saw them perform n were impressed, Iraq (according to GF) asked for Al-Khalid.

On the other hand India abondened patrolium powered engine Arjun & went for more T-90s. Which I believe was much clever move after making a mistake of refusing Ukrainians.

1)india has still not abandoned arjun there is no confirmation to this regard from the army chief.
2)arjun runs on diesel and not on petroleum.
3)t-80 was offred to india after it was sold to pakistan that too without transfer of technology and with a gas turbine engine.
4)india has not purchased any additional t-90's after the original order of the 320 t-90's atleast not yet though there is a proposal to purchase it in order to replace the 800 vaijayantas that have been retired.:coffee

 

[SABRE]

1)india has still not abandoned arjun there is no confirmation to this regard from the army chief.
2)arjun runs on diesel and not on petroleum.
3)t-80 was offred to india after it was sold to pakistan that too without transfer of technology and with a gas turbine engine.
4)india has not purchased any additional t-90's after the original order of the 320 t-90's atleast not yet though there is a proposal to purchase it in order to replace the 800 vaijayantas that have been retired.:coffee

hmm...clash of information.

As far as I was told or rather herd was that Indians were offered T-80 by Ukrain & Pakistan ran to China for T-90s as a counter but Indians dropped the Idea & later both T-90 & 80 fell on Pakistan's lep.

Sorry about patrolium enigne. You are right abt gas turbine. I appologize. My mistake, hope u for give me. But what I read was that India opted for Gas Turbine engine for Arjun. Ukrainians were offering diesal engine.

Abt abondening Arjun. We had a previously a discussions on Pak & India Tanks. Some one posted news from India that Arjun is going to be shut down, later I read on the net that it has been because of the weight problems, but still Indian army will buy abt 20 or so & not more.

Search the thread to find the news of "Going to be shut down" & search net for "Has been shut down or will not be shut down".

 

[A Khan]

another minor note:

T-80 was good enough to be converted to Al-Zarar & T-90 to Al-Khalid

The Al-Zarrar is not T-80, but upgraded T-59.

 

[SABRE]

another minor note:



The Al-Zarrar is not T-80, but upgraded T-59.

On ARY1World (Pakistani news channel) one of the tank officer introduced T-80 as Al-Zarae. He said its T-80 from Ukrain upgraded to Al-Zarar. I guess both T-59 & 80 are being upgraded to Al-Zarar upgrades. Let me not toss be coin yet. I'll get back on it, let me ask some one.

 

[A Khan]

I cant see why the T-80 should need to be upgraded to the Al-zarrar standard since they are quite superior to that. But here is a link to HIT (Heavy Industries Taxila):

http://www.depo.org.pk/products/hit/alzarrar.htm

 

[SABRE]

I cant see why the T-80 should need to be upgraded to the Al-zarrar standard since they are quite superior to that. But here is a link to HIT (Heavy Industries Taxila):

http://www.depo.org.pk/products/hit/alzarrar.htm

Thats what I have been thinking. Why would T-80 need upgrade. Anyways either the officer was a fool, may be some mechanic in disguise or I wasnt paying attention.

Anyways I am not much of a Tank guy. My information is very very limited.

 

[A Khan]

these days its very hard do keep track of all the things going on, and all the new technologies that are emerging. Here is a link to a very informative description of the T-80UD in Pakistani Service:

http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t80ud.php?menu=m1.php

By the way, i think HIT could have done a better job with their website. Not much info avaliable regarding the tanks.

 

[Oqaab]

On ARY1World (Pakistani news channel) one of the tank officer introduced T-80 as Al-Zarae. He said its T-80 from Ukrain upgraded to Al-Zarar. I guess both T-59 & 80 are being upgraded to Al-Zarar upgrades. Let me not toss be coin yet. I'll get back on it, let me ask some one.

Al-Zarrar is upgraded Chinese T-69 tank. Many sites claim that Al-Zarrar is upgraded T-59 but Pakistan got ToT of T-69 tanks from China before Al-Zarrar program started. So it is probably superior to T-69 and will replace all T-59/69.

 

[P.A.F]

can i just ask one question not related to this thread??
SABRE. do u know if Ukrain has RD-93 engines with its air force??? . you get the message?

 

[SABRE]

can i just ask one question not related to this thread??
SABRE. do u know if Ukrain has RD-93 engines with its air force??? . you get the message?

I am not Ukranian or a Pakistan Defence & Strategic Analytical Officer (well not yet, still one year to join Quaid-e-Azam University for that).

I cant realy say wheather they have RD-93 or not nor I think I would be able to find out. I dont know any one from FO officed in Ukrainian branch.

But why you worry so much. Chinese have it & they are bigger ally than Ukrainians. By the time 16 JF-17/FC-1 are inducted in the PAF & PLAAF 8-8 respectively, China would have reverse engineered it hopefuly. So far no official Engine problem has been announced by either CAC or PAC, hence there is no problem.

 

[VICTORA1]

Pakistan could have purchased a lots of equipment from ukraine in the late 90's if it had cash at hand as ukraine didnot have financial resources to float a loan.

Now as far as the equipment is concerned, there are certain items that pakistan needs from ukraine which are much superior to chinese.

 

[SABRE]

Pakistan could have purchased a lots of equipment from ukraine in the late 90's if it had cash at hand as ukraine didnot have financial resources to float a loan.

Now as far as the equipment is concerned, there are certain items that pakistan needs from ukraine which are much superior to chinese.

As Pakistan couldnt pay in late 1990s because of sanctions & Ukrain wanted finance, Ukrain made an agreement on future joint ventures with China & Pakistan. This would bring arms to Pakistan & finance to Ukrain. Al-Khalid is a part of that agreement. Now Ukrain is moving to more joint ventures with Pakistan & China e.g: A2A & A2G missiles, SAAMs etc.

 

[P.A.F]

Its about time where thinking of much needed SAMs. This would help the PAF a great deal in defending the country. we should make a long range one with both china and the ukraine.

 

[SABRE]

Its about time where thinking of much needed SAMs. This would help the PAF a great deal in defending the country. we should make a long range one with both china and the ukraine.

Pakistan, China & Ukrain planned on long ranged SAMs. This was in 2002 when I come to know of it. Dont know its status now.

 

[kashifshahzad]

Pakistan, China & Ukrain planned on long ranged SAMs. This was in 2002 when I come to know of it. Dont know its status now.

Will it be a shoulder fired SAM or it will require a radar and launchers...........

 

[SABRE]

Will it be a shoulder fired SAM or it will require a radar and launchers...........

No idea & its going of topic.

 

[aaaditya]

if it is long ranged sam then it cannot be shoulder fired.:coffee

 

[kashifshahzad]

if it is long ranged sam then it cannot be shoulder fired.:coffee

But i have heard that China is developing FT-2000.So does it mean that Pakistan chian and ukrain would be having a joint venture if not then what kind of thing they are going to develop.