UK Defence Force General discussion

[Sandhi Yudha]

How long can Argus keep going? She is nearly 45 years old, and I bet her designed life as Contender Bezant was a lot less than that. If she goes without replacement, the UK will effectively have less amphibious capability than Australia.

According to this article she has to stay in service until at least 2030.

The oldest ship in the Royal Naval Service to become the new Littoral Strike Ship - Navy Lookout

Following the news RFA Argus will be extended in service beyond 2030 it has been confirmed she will be upgraded to perform in the Littoral Strike Ship role (LSS). Here we look at the background to the decision and consider the pros and cons of the conversion. The Defence Secretary had implied on...

www.navylookout.com

If i am not wrong the Albions will be taken out of service next year. In my opinion the best thing they can do is to convert one of these two into a replacement for the Argus. The Albions are actually still too young for retirement.

 

[Redlands18]

According to this article she has to stay in service until at least 2030.

The oldest ship in the Royal Naval Service to become the new Littoral Strike Ship - Navy Lookout

Following the news RFA Argus will be extended in service beyond 2030 it has been confirmed she will be upgraded to perform in the Littoral Strike Ship role (LSS). Here we look at the background to the decision and consider the pros and cons of the conversion. The Defence Secretary had implied on...

www.navylookout.com

If i am not wrong the Albions will be taken out of service next year. In my opinion the best thing they can do is to convert one of these two into a replacement for the Argus. The Albions are actually still too young for retirement.

Crewing may be an issue, Albion currently operates with a crew of 300+, Argus 80 RFA, 30 RN and trainees.

 

[downunderblue]

Trouble brewing as fiscal limitations compete against geopolitical reality?

Keir Starmer summons UK defence chiefs in tussle over spending

"One person close to the negotiations said: “The chiefs want a budget of 2.65 per cent of GDP but the Treasury is adamant that they should work to 2.3 per cent.” A second official confirmed the gap between the two sides, which amounts to about £10bn a year. Starmer’s allies say the prime minister will not budge from Labour’s manifesto commitment to set out a “pathway” to spend 2.5 per cent of Britain’s GDP on defence. But he has refused to say when spending would hit this level, leaving forces complaining about a significant short-term squeeze. “There will be real cuts,” said a person close to the talks".

 

[swerve]

According to this article she has to stay in service until at least 2030.

The oldest ship in the Royal Naval Service to become the new Littoral Strike Ship - Navy Lookout

Following the news RFA Argus will be extended in service beyond 2030 it has been confirmed she will be upgraded to perform in the Littoral Strike Ship role (LSS). Here we look at the background to the decision and consider the pros and cons of the conversion. The Defence Secretary had implied on...

www.navylookout.com

If i am not wrong the Albions will be taken out of service next year. In my opinion the best thing they can do is to convert one of these two into a replacement for the Argus. The Albions are actually still too young for retirement.

They don't have hangars, which'd limit their ability to do some of what Argus does. That reminds me that we're disposing of almost all our ships with the ability to operate & support more than one helicopter. We now have the two aircraft carriers, Argus, & Fort Victoria.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Prime Minister sets out biggest sustained increase in defence spending since the Cold War, protecting British people in new era for national security

The Prime Minister has today (Tuesday 25 February) set out his commitment to increase spending on defence to 2.5% of GDP from April 2027.

www.gov.uk

• UK defence spending to rise 2.5% of GDP by 2027
• An "ambition" to increase it to 3% of GDP in the next parliament (2028/9 onwards)

A significant development. Defence spending probably needs to rise above 2.5%, but the increases will start almost immediately so that is good. Will be interesting to see what the strategic review says the extra money should be spend on (other than SSN-AUKUS and GCAP).

 

[T.C.P]

Prime Minister sets out biggest sustained increase in defence spending since the Cold War, protecting British people in new era for national security

The Prime Minister has today (Tuesday 25 February) set out his commitment to increase spending on defence to 2.5% of GDP from April 2027.

www.gov.uk

• UK defence spending to rise 2.5% of GDP by 2027
• An "ambition" to increase it to 3% of GDP in the next parliament (2028/9 onwards)

A significant development. Defence spending probably needs to rise above 2.5%, but the increases will start almost immediately so that is good. Will be interesting to see what the strategic review says the extra money should be spend on (other than SSN-AUKUS and GCAP).

F-35As lets go!!!!!!!!!
Is there any smoke in the UK about a new Tyohoon order? all the other participating nations placed new orders recently.

 

[SammyC]

It's good to see defence increases starting to be formalised. Note the UK previously spent about 2.3% of GDP, so this announcement is a 0.2% uptick, equating to about 5 billion pounds.

Probably not enough for a fleet of F35s, but definitely enough to pay better wages, and replenish basic tactical equipment.

 

[MARKMILES77]

BAE Systems on behalf of the UK Government is ramping up production of 155mm shells 16 Fold.
They are also ramping up production of propellants and explosives so that the UK will not have to import them.

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/major-breakthroughs-in-uk-munitions-production

 

[swerve]

They've been working towards a massive increase in shell production since shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine. This press release is an update on progress.

I think production has already increased, but there's a bottleneck in filling shells, which it appears will very soon cease to exist. It'd be interesting to see how many "16 times" is, but I think that's from a rather low base.

 

[MARKMILES77]

They've been working towards a massive increase in shell production since shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine. This press release is an update on progress.

I think production has already increased, but there's a bottleneck in filling shells, which it appears will very soon cease to exist. It'd be interesting to see how many "16 times" is, but I think that's from a rather low base.

A Defence commentator on Times Radio says the increase is to around 150,000 per year, or maybe slightly more.
So must have been making about 10,000 per year up until now.

 

[MARKMILES77]

Sunday Times front page story reports UK is to establish an air launched Nuclear weapons capability.
Will necessitate the purchase of a launch aircraft from the U.S. (F-35A?).
Not sure whether a free-fall bomb or some form of cruise missile like the French.

Latest news & breaking headlines

The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment.

www.thetimes.com

 

[MARKMILES77]

Also reporting aim to expand Royal Navy to 25 Destroyers/Frigates and establishing some form of Iron Dome for the U.K.
Some reports SDR might recommend expansion of number of Nuclear Attack submarines.

https://x.com/AlfieTobutt/status/1928923855252230322/photo/1

 

[StevoJH]

Rebuilding the Royal Navy Destroyer/Frigate fleet isn’t new.
- 8x Type 26
- 5x Type 31
- 5x Type 32
- 6x Type 45 (to be replaced by ?? Type 83)
Assuming the Type 45 is replaced 1 for 1 that is already 24.

Air launched nuclear weapons could probably be integrated to Typhoon and/or F-35B. The more important question would be whether they would be UK warheads or US warheads?

If US warheads, does that serve UK interests? Or US interests? Not necessarily the same thing. Maybe the UK needs to dust off and modernise the plans for the WE.177.

Would WE.177 fit in Storm Shadow?

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Rebuilding the Royal Navy Destroyer/Frigate fleet isn’t new.
- 8x Type 26
- 5x Type 31
- 5x Type 32
- 6x Type 45 (to be replaced by ?? Type 83)
Assuming the Type 45 is replaced 1 for 1 that is already 24.

The Type 32 has never received funding, though, it has spent the last several years on a wishlist without ever leaving the concept phase. If the government accepts it needs to be funded then that is a significant development.

Also I expect that the 24 figure doesn't include the Type 83 destroyer, as the Type 45 will likely remain in service until sometime in the 2040s.

Air launched nuclear weapons could probably be integrated to Typhoon and/or F-35B.

Unlikely. Typhoon is slated to be replaced by GCAP. By the time the bombs and warheads had been produced and the Typhoons had received necessary updates, they'd only have a few years left to go. They also lack stealth capabilities so would need long range standoff weapons, which are more expensive than gravity-drop bombs.

The F-35B's range is relatively limited and would struggle to get home safely, unless it used NATO bases close to the Russian border - which would be the first victims of attack in a conflict with Russia.

It's F-35A or bust. That would be better for the RAF and also allow the Navy to not have to share the F-35Bs.

If US warheads, does that serve UK interests? Or US interests? Not necessarily the same thing. Maybe the UK needs to dust off and modernise the plans for the WE.177.

It's early days, these decisions likely haven't been made yet.

 

[Redshift]

Rebuilding the Royal Navy Destroyer/Frigate fleet isn’t new.
- 8x Type 26
- 5x Type 31
- 5x Type 32
- 6x Type 45 (to be replaced by ?? Type 83)
Assuming the Type 45 is replaced 1 for 1 that is already 24.

Air launched nuclear weapons could probably be integrated to Typhoon and/or F-35B. The more important question would be whether they would be UK warheads or US warheads?

If US warheads, does that serve UK interests? Or US interests? Not necessarily the same thing. Maybe the UK needs to dust off and modernise the plans for the WE.177.

Would WE.177 fit in Storm Shadow?

There is no such thing as a type 32, it was all smoke and mirrors after Boris Johnson talked about it with absolutely no substance but the RN decided to pretend that it was real and Bojo never backed down (of course).

There's isn't a design, and it has never left the "concept" stage.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

There is no such thing as a type 32, it was all smoke and mirrors after Boris Johnson talked about it with absolutely no substance but the RN decided to pretend that it was real and Bojo never backed down (of course).

There's isn't a design, and it has never left the "concept" stage.

That's a very useful post, thanks for repeating what I said instead of adding something new to the discussion.

 

[Redshift]

That's a very useful post, thanks for repeating what I said instead of adding something new to the discussion.

Hmm I'm afraid I hadn't actually read your post (I'm not even sure it was visible when I put mine in), so thanks for adding such a useful, pointless, self indulgent post to the thread and congratulations for being so on target with your earlier post.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Hmm I'm afraid I hadn't actually read your post (I'm not even sure it was visible when I put mine in)

If it takes you more than 24 hours to see a post made by another user, perhaps you should consider upgrading your PC or tablet to something more modern - preferably one that doesn't have a hand-crank.

 

[Redshift]

If it takes you more than 24 hours to see a post made by another user, perhaps you should consider upgrading your PC or tablet to something more modern - preferably one that doesn't have a hand-crank.

Perhaps you should consider upgrading your manners?

 

[MARKMILES77]

Sunday Times front page story reports UK is to establish an air launched Nuclear weapons capability.
Will necessitate the purchase of a launch aircraft from the U.S. (F-35A?).
Not sure whether a free-fall bomb or some form of cruise missile like the French.

Latest news & breaking headlines

The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment.

www.thetimes.com

View attachment 52925

Confirmation the UK is to buy F-35As, whose role will be to deliver nuclear weapons.
At the moment only 12 F-35As will be ordered.
So presumably they will be solely focused on the Nuclear strike role and will not have any other function.
The nuclear weapon to be carried is likely the B61-12.
So not an independent UK airborne nuclear capability.

UK to expand nuclear deterrent with US fighter jets capable of carrying warheads

Starmer to unveil purchase of 12 F-35A jets that can deliver tactical nuclear weapons, which may be kept at RAF bases

www.theguardian.com