The Spanish Navy - Armada Española

[kato]

Spain claim that their S-81 Submarine Isaac Peral has achieve milestone on the BEST AIP system.

S-81 Isaac Peral is not fitted with AIP.

S-83 Cosme Garcia, the third sub of the class, will be the first to run the BEST system. When it commissions in 2026.

 

[Antipode]

S-81 Isaac Peral is not fitted with AIP.

S-83 Cosme Garcia, the third sub of the class, will be the first to run the BEST system. When it commissions in 2026.

Indeed. Re the S-80+ program:

The first, S-81 Isaac Peral, has already endured intense tests after its commission in 2023, including live torpedo launches recently at SINKEX-25. It has also taken His Majesty Felipe VI to maximum operational depth.

After partaking in DYNAMIC MARINER FLOTEX-25, the crew tied a broom to the sail when entering port, allegedly a sign for "we swept our rivals".

S-82 Narciso Monturiol will probably start sea trials this summer, to be commissioned around summer of 2026.

But S-83 Cosme Garcia, already sporting BEST, is now expected to be commissioned by 2028, and
S-84 Mateo Garcia de los Reyes, by 2029.

BEST AIP has been already fully tested in front of third parties (Indian Navy officers) and apparently results allow for some optimism, after such a strenuous development.

As for the submarine launched missile, it is to be the JSM-SL. Interestingly, confirmation was given recently by the Netherlands Prime Minister when announcing the missile selection for their Orka class submarine program.

I aimed for clean post, kindly ask for any particular and I will source a link.

Cheers!

 

[JBRobbo]

Spain realising the limitations of STOVL aircraft and/or the risk of overreliance on the US with the F-35B. Now after a dedicated small CATOBAR carrier similar to Charles de Gaulle in size but with conventional propulsion, in addition to a 2nd Juan Carlos (Canberra) LHD. With such an announcement, it seems strange that they were one of the few amongst NATO that rejected the 5% GDP defence spending target implored by Trump.

Spain Eyes Catapult-fitted Aircraft Carrier with Navantia as NATO Urges Greater Defense Investment

Spain Eyes Catapult-fitted Aircraft Carrier with Navantia as NATO Urges Greater Defense Investment

armyrecognition.com

 

[Todjaeger]

Spain realising the limitations of STOVL aircraft and/or the risk of overreliance on the US with the F-35B. Now after a dedicated small CATOBAR carrier similar to Charles de Gaulle in size but with conventional propulsion, in addition to a 2nd Juan Carlos (Canberra) LHD. With such an announcement, it seems strange that they were one of the few amongst NATO that rejected the 5% GDP defence spending target implored by Trump.

Spain Eyes Catapult-fitted Aircraft Carrier with Navantia as NATO Urges Greater Defense Investment

Spain Eyes Catapult-fitted Aircraft Carrier with Navantia as NATO Urges Greater Defense Investment

armyrecognition.com

Per the article, Navantia is doing a feasibility study, which is well short of a CATOBAR being developed never mind ordered and built.

Frankly I would wonder at this point whether Spain could realistically afford the costs of everything involved to make conventional carrier ops successful. Of the western nations, only two have CATOBAR aircraft designs in production and these are the US and France, which among other things means that Spain would quite likely still be very dependent on the US for aircraft anyway, especially since one of the three CATOBAR designs is a different version of the F-35...

There is also the issue of numbers in service and maintaining pilot and crew skills. A single CV is going to provide a capability but only part of the time, since the one carrier will periodically need to undergo training and maintenance cycles. Previous Spanish Armada plans (prior to decommissioning the PdA) had a dedicated STOVL carrier which could get some STOVL ops coverage to at least maintain pilot skill currency by the LHD. However, if the Armada does go to CATOBAR then the JC1 will have no ability to provide any coverage.

Effectively the Armada would need to really have at least two carriers, as well as all the pilots, crew, aircraft, etc. In order to effectively operate modern CATOBAR aircraft, the vessel itself would likely need to be fairly large and also cost several billion Euros for just the ship itself. Looking at the numbers for an Indian order for Rafale M carrier aircraft from this year, there was a $7.4 bil. deal to purchase 26 aircraft, simulators and other associated kit, weapons and logistics support. A single CATOBAR carrier on the smaller side (like a Clemenceau-class) plus fighters to make an air group would likely have a price tag approaching if not past $10 bil.

I am not sure that Spain has really recovered enough economically that it could afford to dump $10 bil. on what could be described as a vanity project.

 

[JBRobbo]

Per the article, Navantia is doing a feasibility study, which is well short of a CATOBAR being developed never mind ordered and built.

Frankly I would wonder at this point whether Spain could realistically afford the costs of everything involved to make conventional carrier ops successful. Of the western nations, only two have CATOBAR aircraft designs in production and these are the US and France, which among other things means that Spain would quite likely still be very dependent on the US for aircraft anyway, especially since one of the three CATOBAR designs is a different version of the F-35...

There is also the issue of numbers in service and maintaining pilot and crew skills. A single CV is going to provide a capability but only part of the time, since the one carrier will periodically need to undergo training and maintenance cycles. Previous Spanish Armada plans (prior to decommissioning the PdA) had a dedicated STOVL carrier which could get some STOVL ops coverage to at least maintain pilot skill currency by the LHD. However, if the Armada does go to CATOBAR then the JC1 will have no ability to provide any coverage.

Effectively the Armada would need to really have at least two carriers, as well as all the pilots, crew, aircraft, etc. In order to effectively operate modern CATOBAR aircraft, the vessel itself would likely need to be fairly large and also cost several billion Euros for just the ship itself. Looking at the numbers for an Indian order for Rafale M carrier aircraft from this year, there was a $7.4 bil. deal to purchase 26 aircraft, simulators and other associated kit, weapons and logistics support. A single CATOBAR carrier on the smaller side (like a Clemenceau-class) plus fighters to make an air group would likely have a price tag approaching if not past $10 bil.

I am not sure that Spain has really recovered enough economically that it could afford to dump $10 bil. on what could be described as a vanity project.

Correct, but the fact remains..they're looking in that direction. Most likely political fluff

 

[Todjaeger]

Correct, but the fact remains..they're looking in that direction. Most likely political fluff

Being a feasibility study, I rather suspect that Navantia will get a idea of what the project cost for the ship itself could likely be, possibly based off different carrier sizes and capability or aircraft capacity. Once gov't gets that figure, or it and the cost of the air group, then the idea of a CATOBAR carrier will quietly die. One needs to remember that the Spanish defence budget in 2024 was something like $22 bil. so launching a multi-year project to introduce a new platform and embarked aircraft capability which would require nearly half the entire defence budget would be unlikely IMO.

 

[Stampede]

Spain realising the limitations of STOVL aircraft and/or the risk of overreliance on the US with the F-35B. Now after a dedicated small CATOBAR carrier similar to Charles de Gaulle in size but with conventional propulsion, in addition to a 2nd Juan Carlos (Canberra) LHD. With such an announcement, it seems strange that they were one of the few amongst NATO that rejected the 5% GDP defence spending target implored by Trump.

Spain Eyes Catapult-fitted Aircraft Carrier with Navantia as NATO Urges Greater Defense Investment

Spain Eyes Catapult-fitted Aircraft Carrier with Navantia as NATO Urges Greater Defense Investment

armyrecognition.com

Yes it’s the RAN thread , but I wonder if any F35b’s have operated off the JS 1 from other allied NATO countries.
That would surely be the starting point to evaluate the feasibility of the concept with the LHD first ; before going ballistic with fanciful aspirations of a large carrier and all that it entails.
Champagne taste and beer budget me thinks!

Cheers S

 

[John Fedup]

O/T LHDs and F-35Bs probably can be made to work more or less and are suitable for the Med/Spanish Atlantic coast. Any Spanish CATOBAR project would have to involve a partner (Italy?) IMO. As France wants a CVN, France is out and unless Spain gets on the 5% of GDP train, any future carrier is as well.

 

[Antipode]

Deleted as out of place.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Correct, but the fact remains..they're looking in that direction. Most likely political fluff

It may be they have to look at CATOBAR to rule it out. This is not unheard of tactic.

IMO it may make more sense for Spain to build another LHD, but with F-35B modifications, and retro fit some capability onto its current LHD. This is kinda what Italy has done, retrofitted and existing ship (Cavour) and built a new larger ship. Then acquire a small squad of ~12 F-35B. This would give them two ships, for light operations, but quite capable of self protection or CAS or other networked functions.

Spanish pilots could then also, deploy on UK/Italian/US ships if and required. It would also add significant amphibious capability to Europe.

I would point out that China has a LHD with a catapult, but mostly focused at drone launches. It may be that capability that is of interest and that could feasibly be included on a LHD. Launching and retrieving drones is much more doable. Drones often have smaller, less powerful engines, to maximise range and lowering cost/radar signature, being smaller might make launches tricky. But is assessing that kind of capability, you might start off assessing the current state of CATOBAR capability full stop. Even if you wanted to just set aside space and weight for the capability as a possible future upgrade.

 

[Ananda]

China going to put more Turbofan UAV in their LHD. That's why they need catapult on their LHD, as I suspect due their LHD did not designed with Skijump. China already prepare set of turbofan design specifically for UAV.

However Turkish Navy plan to operate their Turbofan UAV Kizilelma from Anadolu. Thus remain to be seen whether Juan Carlos skijump can operate large enough turbofan drones, withour catapult. If that happen, perhaps it is shown they don't need CATOBAR. If they don't want to operate J-35B as fixed wing components, perhaps turbofan UAV from their LHD can be compromise answered. Rather then invest to much more expensive catobar carrier.

 

[swerve]

...This is kinda what Italy has done, retrofitted and existing ship (Cavour) and built a new larger ship. Then acquire a small squad of ~12 F-35B. ..

Italy has ordered 30 F-35B, 15 each navy & AF, & has budgeted for another 10, 5 for each force. AFAIK the air force aircraft should be able to operate from Cavour & Trieste, though not as effectively as the naval ones.