The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
On a separate note, a lot of reports lately about the “turning the tide”, “soon to collapse”, and the like. Funny enough, a lot of it from the same authors as in 2022, shortly after the invasion and then later that year, in 2023, during and past Prigozhin, and so on. This a not bad of a read:

Here's another decent read. The most interesting comment is how a mid-range country in a desperate situation (Ukraine) can out perform a larger country via AI and aggressive drone development by a well motivated populace. To a lesser extent this being repeated by Iran. This emerging drone/AI era really is a wake-up call for all militarises, especially wrt where large investments in new kit.

Thanks largely to robots, Ukraine is now talking about winning, not just surviving - Defense One
 

ComradeVortex

New Member
can out perform a larger country via AI and aggressive drone development by a well motivated populace
Obviously, with massive financial and technological backing from its allies. Would we see this performance if Ukrainians didn't have access to Starlink or had the huge amount of money at their disposal? Maybe, but it's something to keep in mind.
 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
Another RU ship hit.

Tentatively identified as the Boikiy/Boykiy, a Steregushchy class corvette, was hit in drydock in St.Petersburg and was shown burning, looking like the ship might be a write-off.

With this sort of range, the Admiral Nahkimov might be on the hit list unless it stays in the White Sea.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Obviously, with massive financial and technological backing from its allies. Would we see this performance if Ukrainians didn't have access to Starlink or had the huge amount of money at their disposal? Maybe, but it's something to keep in mind.
Not sure how much financial backing Ukraine is getting versus actual military kit but many Western defence vendors are investing in Ukrainian drone companies because of their expertise. Nice to have allies.
 

deyhere

New Member
Not sure how much financial backing Ukraine is getting versus actual military kit but many Western defence vendors are investing in Ukrainian drone companies because of their expertise. Nice to have allies.
Western defence vendors investing in Ukraine for a profit or to gain expertise? i have a feeling that apart from boots on the ground, Ukraine does nothing, everything is being done for them and given to them for free
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Western defence vendors investing in Ukraine for a profit or to gain expertise?
Both so it is mutually beneficial.

i have a feeling that apart from boots on the ground, Ukraine does nothing, everything is being done for them and given to them for free
Being done for them for free, hardly, a reasonable deal for not having NATO boots on the ground. When this war ends, Putin will see his biggest failure, Ukraine's eventual membership in NATO.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
i have a feeling that apart from boots on the ground, Ukraine does nothing, everything is being done for them and given to them for free
Thanks for letting us know that you know nothing about the matter, but still have an opinion.

Ukraine is making huge numbers of drones, including sea & land. Ukrainians have been very innovative in designing, making & using them. European countries have held exercises with experienced Ukrainian drone operators, & said that they learned a great deal from the UKrainians & will change their training to incorporate what they learned.

Ukraine also makes missiles (the Russian cruiser Mosvka was sunk by two Ukrainian anti-ship missiles), artillery, AFVs, small arms, guided bombs, shells (including NATO standard 155mm) & other weapons. The long-range weapons used to attack St. Petersburg, Moscow, etc. are designed & made in Ukraine.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
I missed (April) this one, maybe western media is not interested in informing about Russian innovation? What US has to learn from Russia, not from Ukraine.

For the United States, the central lesson is that success in AI-enabled unmanned systems requires an ecosystem approach. To advance its ambitions in autonomous technology, the United States must implement a national systems project approach that incorporates and aligns training, testing, dual-use innovation, government implementation, and civil-military cooperation.

Ukrainian technical analysis of intercepted V2U drones indicates the absence of communication components required for operator control, alongside the presence of onboard computing sufficient to run AI-enabled perception and decision-making software.
U.S. firms account for roughly 69 percent of memory hardware, 57 percent of processors, and 38 percent of sensors. By comparison, China supplies less than 9 percent of total AI-enabling components.

Projects such as Molniya demonstrate a recurring pattern: rapid experimentation by civilian engineers and volunteer groups at the “garage” level, followed by selective state intervention to finance, standardize, and mass-produce systems that prove operationally effective. This approach allows the state to capture the benefits of decentralized innovation while avoiding the inefficiencies of attempting to centrally design solutions under wartime pressure.
Dual-use firms can draw on far larger and more varied datasets, iterate software in real operational environments, and continuously retrain models based on civilian and security applications. This access to data, testing opportunities, and feedback loops allows AI capabilities to mature faster and transition more smoothly into battlefield use than systems developed exclusively inside closed military programs.
Once a design proves viable, it is quickly repurposed across multiple roles—for example, as a loitering munition, reconnaissance platform, or logistics carrier—through minimal airframe changes and software updates. Simple construction and modular architecture allow fast iteration based on frontline feedback, accelerating the diffusion of successful designs across different mission sets. (Even if I read something about this, western media is almost always about Ukrainian innovation; Russia is still using sharpened spades.)

The objective is to move beyond political rhetoric and evaluate the underlying system of planning, coordination, and state oversight that shapes Russia’s approach to innovation under wartime conditions. (We shouldn't pay that much attention to "political rhetoric", in general.)

The strategy (updated in 2024 and goals for 2030/2036) focuses on the applied, dual-use dimensions of AI. In practice, Russia seeks to leverage algorithms and models already developed abroad, integrating them into domestic applications across defence, security, and industrial automation.
The practical orientation of Russia’s strategy has already translated into tangible progress on the battlefield, rather than remaining confined to policy documents or strategic declarations.
Russia intends to replace foreign UASs, components, and software with its own systems.
Kronshtadt, Orion, unsuccessful. ZALA, Lancet, successful. Molniya, extremely successful. V2U, beyond.
In one reported case in May 2025, a group of seven V2U loitering munitions deviated from a pre-planned mission after detecting a concentration of vehicles and civilians, autonomously forming a circular holding pattern before initiating coordinated attacks.

Project Archangel. Typically through two- to three-month courses focused on practical drone operations, counter-drone tactics, and the integration of emerging technologies into combat units, it does not merely supplement state training but also helps create parallel pipelines capable of rapidly absorbing battlefield lessons and translating them into structured instruction.
The group has actively shaped technological adaptation. Its engineers developed systems such as the Archangel counter-UAS system and paired hardware innovation with operator training programs to ensure fielded systems could be employed effectively. Training centres integrated advanced software tools, including the Glaz/Groza complex for improved reconnaissance and strike coordination and Kvadrosim, a combat simulator for drone operation and interception, thereby embedding digital tools directly into the instructional process.

The Russian military has restructured elements of its force by concentrating experienced operators, validating systems, refining tactics into elite formations, and then scaling these practices across the broader force—culminating in the establishment of the dedicated Unmanned Systems Forces and centralized training and innovation centers designed to standardize and expand drone warfare expertise.
However, reports indicate that the effectiveness of this training is limited by inadequate equipment and lack of standardization. Moreover, training timelines can also be rushed: contract soldiers may receive just three weeks of total training before participating in frontline operations. (Not to say that Ukrainians get 3 months. As, I cannot say that, I got.)
The progression from decentralized volunteer groups to Rubicon as a centralized elite unit, and ultimately to the Unmanned Systems Forces, illustrates how Russia identifies operationally successful models, concentrates expertise, and then scales them across the broader force through formal institutional mechanisms.
Training, not hardware alone, determines battlefield outcomes. (A lesson that must always be relearned.)
Russia’s adaptation in drone warfare has been driven less by isolated technological breakthroughs and more by the systematic integration of training, doctrine, and organizational reform, an approach that increasingly shapes successes on the battlefield.

The structural vulnerabilities of globally integrated semiconductor and electronics markets, where dual-use technologies remain widely accessible despite sanctions and export control regimes. (We were supplying Iran and Iraq, not supplying Russia would be a bad business strategy.)
The findings also complicate narratives that emphasize China as the primary supplier of Russian drone components. While China plays a role in the broader electronics ecosystem, Western firms, particularly U.S.-headquartered companies, remain central suppliers of AI-relevant hardware.

Battlefield effectiveness has emerged not from elegant autonomy architectures, but from low-cost, modular, rapidly iterated systems embedded with narrowly scoped but mission-critical AI functions. Scale, speed, and feedback loops have proven more decisive than technological sophistication alone.
The central lesson is that ecosystem coherence, not individual programs, determines success in AI-enabled unmanned warfare.

Then I found this...
Trump's moral code, maybe?
 

rsemmes

Active Member
Thanks for letting us know that you know nothing about the matter, but still have an opinion.

Ukraine is making huge numbers of drones, including sea & land. Ukrainians have been very innovative in designing, making & using them. European countries have held exercises with experienced Ukrainian drone operators, & said that they learned a great deal from the UKrainians & will change their training to incorporate what they learned.

Ukraine also makes missiles (the Russian cruiser Mosvka was sunk by two Ukrainian anti-ship missiles), artillery, AFVs, small arms, guided bombs, shells (including NATO standard 155mm) & other weapons. The long-range weapons used to attack St. Petersburg, Moscow, etc. are designed & made in Ukraine.
So, Ukraine is doing what Russia is doing but at smaller scale. Luckily for Ukraine (or not), Russia is also facing NATO. The situation would be like France in Indochina, right? The US was paying up 90% of the bill and France was providing the corpses.
 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
Edit: @vikingatespam, don’t mean to imply that your opinion is not educated, just pointing out that his is. That, perhaps, didn’t come out right in my original post, so I wanted to clarify, haha.
No worries Kip. My guess is from a few pics. The biggest variable is the temperature of the internal fires, as well as how much water got into the internal structure. Too hot and the steel temper will suffer. If it was an aluminum based hull (it isnt), it would be totally fucked. At this point, it would cost a lot of rubles to fix this ship...and...is it worth it given the time frame, and the condition of the RU economy ? Meh.
 

deyhere

New Member
Both so it is mutually beneficial.



Being done for them for free, hardly, a reasonable deal for not having NATO boots on the ground. When this war ends, Putin will see his biggest failure, Ukraine's eventual membership in NATO.
free stuff is bad, when you take too much free stuff, you lose dignity and respect then you gradually become a tool to be used by the donor. without NATO boots on the ground, Ukraine will never win this war
 

deyhere

New Member
Thanks for letting us know that you know nothing about the matter, but still have an opinion.

Ukraine is making huge numbers of drones, including sea & land. Ukrainians have been very innovative in designing, making & using them. European countries have held exercises with experienced Ukrainian drone operators, & said that they learned a great deal from the UKrainians & will change their training to incorporate what they learned.

Ukraine also makes missiles (the Russian cruiser Mosvka was sunk by two Ukrainian anti-ship missiles), artillery, AFVs, small arms, guided bombs, shells (including NATO standard 155mm) & other weapons. The long-range weapons used to attack St. Petersburg, Moscow, etc. are designed & made in Ukraine.
its just my opinion and i am open to learning.

Yes, Ukraine makes all this equipment you listed and more but where did they get the money from? Ukraine is broke and very corrupt, Andriy Yermak, Zelenskys former chief of staff and right hand man was arrested for money laundering, that says it all.
i will bet my last that most of these production lines you mention are being manned by westerners, if not Ukrainians will steal all of the money and nothing will be done.


Russia pretends that it doesn't see that the extend of western support to Ukraine is enormous, but if you follow Russian media, you will see that Putin is coming under some serious pressure to act directly against western supporters and thats really bad.
for now Kirill Dmitriev is still negotiating building a bridge from Chukotka to Alaska, maybe that will bring peace

 

personaldesas

Active Member
Western defence vendors investing in Ukraine for a profit or to gain expertise? i have a feeling that apart from boots on the ground, Ukraine does nothing, everything is being done for them and given to them for free
Besides the questionable statement, “Only boots on the ground” is a strange way to dismiss the people paying the highest price in this war.
 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
free stuff is bad, when you take too much free stuff, you lose dignity and respect then you gradually become a tool to be used by the donor. without NATO boots on the ground, Ukraine will never win this war
"Free stuff is bad" and "lose dignity and respect" sounds like something from Moscow. This does not constitute a serious argument.

How much "free" is too much ? Should the west stop sending air defense missiles ?

UKR is winning the war right now, by remaining an independant political entity. That isnt the same as triumphantly marching into Moscow, but it is a victory never the less.
 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
Yes, Ukraine makes all this equipment you listed and more but where did they get the money from?
Germany and Japan were broke in 1945 , but managed to continue war production. Th UKR domestic military production is well known.

Ukraine is broke and very corrupt, Andriy Yermak, Zelenskys former chief of staff and right hand man was arrested for money laundering, that says it all.
Corruption problems ? Sure. You know which country is more corrupt ? Russia. And Ukraine, unlike Russia, is actually taking steps to reduce corruption. Your example of Yermak being arrested shows that.

i will bet my last that most of these production lines you mention are being manned by westerners, if not Ukrainians will steal all of the money and nothing will be done.
Your last...ruble ? If you think there are hordes of British, French and Germans on Ukrainain production lines, I guess you also think NATO generals are being killed every time in RU missile strikes.


Russia pretends that it doesn't see that the extend of western support to Ukraine is enormous, but if you follow Russian media, you will see that Putin is coming under some serious pressure to act directly against western supporters and thats really bad.
RU isnt pretending....they just cant do anything about it. The domestic pressure Putin is coming under, is stop stop the war.

for now Kirill Dmitriev is still negotiating building a bridge from Chukotka to Alaska, maybe that will bring peace
??? Are you being serious ?
 

Redshift

Active Member
Alternative (educated) point of view:

View attachment 54923
View attachment 54924
View attachment 54925

Embedded tweet in thelast post:

View attachment 54926


Edit: @vikingatespam, don’t mean to imply that your opinion is not educated, just pointing out that his is. That, perhaps, didn’t come out right in my original post, so I wanted to clarify, haha.
Easy solution, drop another hit on it at about 70 to 80 percent of the way into its repair schedule, that should help to keep it written off.
 

rsemmes

Active Member
by remaining an independant political entity
What point of the Istanbul negotiations was Ukraine not "remaining an independent political entity"? Or in any other of the negotiations?
Crimea is still Russia, can Russia claim to have won the war? "??? Are you being serious ?" And I am not saying that he is serious, mind.

Can Germany do anything regarding the terrorist attack carried out by Ukraine against its energy supply?
Should the West start sending missiles to Iran? For its right to defend itself, I mean. Maybe to Lebanon?
So many questions... And so easy to find one simple answer to satisfy yourself...

One thing is true, there is no "domestic pressure" in Ukraine (only deserters), they are out of the country. Sweden wants to kick them (men) back to Ukraine.
 
Top