The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[crest]

I would suggest that Russia has indeed committed acts of genocide against Ukraine. War is ugly and the destruction of cities seems to be the norm. Removing children and sending them to Russia to be adopted and assimilated is another matter all together. Forcing Ukrainians to accept Russian passports in occupied land is also genocide. There are a whole host of things that Russians are perpetrating against Ukrainians that qualify as genocide. Civilian casualties aren't the only measure of genocide although that might be what some people typically look for. That being said when the war eventually reaches it's conclusion I don't believe Russia will ever face these charges.

The Ten Stages of the Russian Genocide in Ukraine

Source: EU Debates, News & OpinionsThe Ten Stages of the Russian Genocide in UkraineBy Emily MullinAnd the Genocide Watch Ukraine Team Talks about a negotiated settlement of Russia’s war against Ukraine have dominated international headlines. As many hope that President Trump can talk Mr. Putin...

www.genocidewatch.com

Individual acts are not a state program like I said the low number of civilians killed is proof that it's not a state policy if the state of Russia wished to commit genocide they are capable of much more then 4% Infact the norm is greater then that. No argument you can make invalidates the fact that casualties are lower then normal in warfare. Again I'm not saying atrocities don't happen I'm saying they are not the state policy Infact it appears the policy is to limit them
Forcing Ukrainians to accept Russian passports is not genocide this is a ridiculous idea. Truth is the passports are a technical thing as they are now in Russian territory so by law in order to operate freely and mind you they are free not imprisoned then need a passport recognizing there legally protected status. This is a signal that Russia if possible wishes to absorb Ukraines not kill them. Tho I'm sure there will also be a prosses for those who wish to leave to do so. If they didn't leave before Russia came and mind you the advancements are slow and that does happen not to anyone's suprise. one could even argue those who stay do so because they want to

Yes the registration is huge this happens in long bombardments it's not policy tho as in areas that are not defended as long the damage is correspondingly less

 

[crest]

Ukraine as a "neutral state" is code for a impoverished Ukraine without any chance of development. Ukraine is european and thus wants to be part of Europe. There is zero chance for development in a russian dominated ukraine. It would be stuck in misery just like belarus or russia itself.

Its up to Ukrainians to decide their future and they chose Europe with overwhelming numbers. And now after Russia commited so many crimes against them, thats set in stone.

I dont denie Russia has impact, its just 100% negative and its Europes core interest to see russia as weak as possible.

As i said, appeasement leads always to war. When Russia knows any airplane entering european airspace will get shot down, Russia wont do it. Evry weakness shown is exploited. Its as simple as that.

A neutral state is not code for poor it's a direct statement about military capabilities. To my knowledge Russia provided cheep energy to Ukraine this is a benefit to the state. There economy is Ukraine business Russia did not then and does not now run it. Barring the fact Russia has a vested interest in the area being stable. It would most likely help support whoever was in charge as long as that neutrality and stability was provided they of course prefer a growing trade partner that was not a military threat with good trade relations. The condition if Ukraine economy is neither the fault of Russia or Europe it is Infact the result of the Ukrainian government itself.

At least that's what I can gather

 

[Beltrami2005]

Unable to capture at this point. If they could capture it, it would be a different situation.



This is simply not true. Areas under Russian occupation that aren't in the immediate near-front area are accessible to civilians including foreign reporters. German TV did a story from Mariupol'. Additionally I've posted videos from towns that are in bad shape under Russian control in several posts above, including interviews with residents. This isn't the 1950s, there is no iron curtain. There's internet and tourism in Russia. If you wanted to travel to Mariupol' for example you easily could.



Frankly I think this is B.S. European nations are responsible for things like the Holocaust and the Belgian Congo. I would argue that Russia committing war crimes is very much in line with the history of European nations. The attempt to label some as "European" and others as not is simply a politically-motivated smear. And let's be clear, there's little difference in culture, mindset, and the reality within between Russia and Ukraine. I'd understand if you were trying to draw the line at the EU border. It would still be, in my opinion, fundamentally wrong. But it would have at least some objective reality to it. Trying to draw the line between Ukraine and Russia is ridiculous.



I don't think a naval blockade of Russian transit through the Baltic and Mediterranean would ensure peace. I think it would ensure the opposite.



I don't think it was possible to make it clear from day 1 that this would be the result, because nobody knew it would be the result.



Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think there's any major policy maker that accurately predicted the course this war would take, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. Who knew? Who predicted a 4+ year trench war dominated by drones?



The old tried and true "Hitler" argument. Except reality is more complex than that. Sometimes the opposite of appeasement also leads to war. And sometimes a compromise can help avoid war. The key thing to understand is that compromise isn't a question of what's right but a question of the middle ground between what two sides want.

How do conflicts spiral into war?

When does deterrence work – and when does it fail? Understanding spiral and deterrence theories may keep conflicts from escalating further.

goodauthority.org

I could not travel to Mariupol. Im spanish, i would be arrested there and possible disappear. There is a travel warning for ukrainian cities under russian occupation and not even Russia is save for europeans to travel. Russia is known to take hostages.

As for european or not, our cultures are fundamentally different to Russia. Both in mentality, religion, world view, art ect.

Ukraine is also very different to Russia. Far more catholic, far more order ect.

As for appeasement, one must be strong to avoid war. Russia must know that any attack on us leads to its doom. When that is clear there wont be misunderstandings. With russia you need a clear language.

 

[Beltrami2005]

A neutral state is not code for poor it's a direct statement about military capabilities. To my knowledge Russia provided cheep energy to Ukraine this is a benefit to the state. There economy is Ukraine business Russia did not then and does not now run it. Barring the fact Russia has a vested interest in the area being stable. It would most likely help support whoever was in charge as long as that neutrality and stability was provided they of course prefer a growing trade partner that was not a military threat with good trade relations. The condition if Ukraine economy is neither the fault of Russia or Europe it is Infact the result of the Ukrainian government itself.

At least that's what I can gather

Care to explain then why large areas of Russia live in absolute misery and poverty? Shouldnt it be in ther interests of Russia to have in its own areas to be stable and have good living standards? Yet living standards in Siberia for most are horrendous and stagnant.

Have you ever visited Russia`? I have, when i was 14 years old with my father in 2019. He was there on a business trip and took me with him. We were in Irkutsk and the living conditions outside the city centre looks dystopian.

Was one of those trips where when you arrive back home you thank god. For all the shortcomings that Spain or the EU may have...we are so lucky...

 

[Vanquish]

Individual acts are not a state program like I said the low number of civilians killed is proof that it's not a state policy if the state of Russia wished to commit genocide they are capable of much more then 4% Infact the norm is greater then that. No argument you can make invalidates the fact that casualties are lower then normal in warfare. Again I'm not saying atrocities don't happen I'm saying they are not the state policy Infact it appears the policy is to limit them
Forcing Ukrainians to accept Russian passports is not genocide this is a ridiculous idea. Truth is the passports are a technical thing as they are now in Russian territory so by law in order to operate freely and mind you they are free not imprisoned then need a passport recognizing there legally protected status. This is a signal that Russia if possible wishes to absorb Ukraines not kill them. Tho I'm sure there will also be a prosses for those who wish to leave to do so. If they didn't leave before Russia came and mind you the advancements are slow and that does happen not to anyone's suprise. one could even argue those who stay do so because they want to

Yes the registration is huge this happens in long bombardments it's not policy tho as in areas that are not defended as long the damage is correspondingly less

Ukranians are not in Russian territory, they are in Ukraine territory occupied by Russian forces. Typically such as the world wars, the alliance forces did not force the Germans to renounce their citizenship and accept passports of other countries. The annexation of Ukrainian territories has not been validated by the UN despite Russians assertions.

 

[crest]

Care to explain then why large areas of Russia live in absolute misery and poverty? Shouldnt it be in ther interests of Russia to have in its own areas to be stable and have good living standards? Yet living standards in Siberia for most are horrendous and stagnant.

Have you ever visited Russia`? I have, when i was 14 years old with my father in 2019. He was there on a business trip and took me with him. We were in Irkutsk and the living conditions outside the city centre looks dystopian.

Was one of those trips where when you arrive back home you thank god. For all the shortcomings that Spain or the EU may have...we are so lucky...

There are a whole host of reasons that are outside of this topic. Pertaining to it well sanctions and general anti Russian legacy policys have hindered growth with the west. Is that the entirety of the story? of course not. Is it the cause for the war? No does it have effects? Yes recruitment is higher in poor areas as it's high pay that influx of money is having effects on those regions.

There is Infact a large number of people in Russia who would argue that there current government does Infact try to fix probloms in the country and of course some that don't. As in any country

You don't like Russia I get it bro. Personaly I think you don't know much about it but what I think is about as relivent to the topic here as the constant Russia sucks cause there stupid,evil,primitive savages naritive has to do with the realitys of the war in ukraine. Except in the manner in which that perspective prevents objectively and therefore peace

 

[crest]

Ukranians are not in Russian territory, they are in Ukraine territory occupied by Russian forces. Typically such as the world wars, the alliance forces did not force the Germans to renounce their citizenship and accept passports of other countries. The annexation of Ukrainian territories has not been validated by the UN despite Russians assertions.

do you know how war works? I get the position you have but realistically Russia has taken that territory it has no intention of mass arresting the people it wants them ideally to join Russia and be productive citizens. Hence passports hence Russian citizenship...what are you expecting to happen here? Really I mean that

Tho yes I get it the idea of saying you can either join Russia or go to jail untill the end of hostilitys or prisoners exchange may seem harsh. But realistically it's actually fairly liberal as far as wartime policies go. We're also not talking about people who stayed here btw it's not like capturing a huge city rapidly. The dynamics are different here as in the numbers are low enough they are all encountered (and given aid btw) What do you think the state of Russia should do with people in the areas they capture if offering them freedom and citizenship is bad or recognition that those refusing it are in all probability a insurrection risk?

Also we'll way off topic I don't think you know much about ww11 there was very much a with us or against us policy when it comes to the civilian populations of liberated (a difference in itself you need to think about) areas. And by comparison war crimes then vs war crimes now it's two different worlds of course it's two vastly different situations. Ones that Infact make bad analogies

 

[Vanquish]

We

do you know how war works? I get the position you have but realistically Russia has taken that territory it has no intention of mass arresting the people it wants them ideally to join Russia and be productive citizens. Hence passports hence Russian citizenship...what are you expecting to happen here? Really I mean that

Tho yes I get it the idea of saying you can either join Russia or go to jail untill the end of hostilitys or prisoners exchange may seem harsh. But realistically it's actually fairly liberal as far as wartime policies go. We're also not talking about people who stayed here btw it's not like capturing a huge city rapidly. The dynamics are different here as in the numbers are low enough they are all encountered (and given aid btw) What do you think the state of Russia should do with people in the areas they capture if offering them freedom and citizenship is bad or recognition that those refusing it are in all probability a insurrection risk?

Also we'll way off topic I don't think you know much about ww11 there was very much a with us or against us policy when it comes to the civilian populations of liberated (a difference in itself you need to think about) areas. And by comparison war crimes then vs war crimes now it's two different worlds of course it's two vastly different situations. Ones that Infact make bad analogies

Well we can agree to disagree then.

 

[Beltrami2005]

There are a whole host of reasons that are outside of this topic. Pertaining to it well sanctions and general anti Russian legacy policys have hindered growth with the west. Is that the entirety of the story? of course not. Is it the cause for the war? No does it have effects? Yes recruitment is higher in poor areas as it's high pay that influx of money is having effects on those regions.

There is Infact a large number of people in Russia who would argue that there current government does Infact try to fix probloms in the country and of course some that don't. As in any country

You don't like Russia I get it bro. Personaly I think you don't know much about it but what I think is about as relivent to the topic here as the constant Russia sucks cause there stupid,evil,primitive savages naritive has to do with the realitys of the war in ukraine. Except in the manner in which that perspective prevents objectively and therefore peace

That is outright wrong. The main reason is plain and simple russian colonialism and imperialism. Siberia isnt russia. The wealth is extracted from there and funneled directly to St. Petersburg and Moscow.

A good example is yakutia. It has 1 million inhabitants, while UAE has 10 million. Yakutia exports as much gas and oil as the UAE...yet its income and living standards reach not even 8% of those in the UAE.

Russia uses all areas it occupies only for extraction of wealth for its elite. There is near zero development in the regions it conquered. The population is used as working drones. Same was planned for Ukraine.

This is the absolute only reason for the war. Russias population is collapsing, its clear that siberia will fall to China in the future simply by population development. The Moscow regime in that sense needs people and new resources.

Putins war led Finland and Sweden into NATO. NATO was at no point a threat for Russia. It was always about stealing people and land.

So to come around, its absolute in our interest to do evrything we can to weaken russia. This should also continue after the situation in Ukraine has calmed down. It is clear we will have a cold war scenario for decades and this can be the stage for low level sabotage on russian gas and oil infrastructure as well as infrastructure connected to military activity.

As cynical as it may sound but the ukrainian war is in european interest at the moment since it pins down russia, depletes it and gives us time to muscle up. The best scenario would be a complete collapse of the russian state and split up in multiple statelets.

Its same tactic we spanish and our allies used to grind down the ottomans, with Greece as the ukraine of its time.

 

[rsemmes]

You are wrong, Ukraine has not lost and is not losing. Russia is losing. After more than 10 years of war and more than 1,2million causalties, around 80% of Ukraine is still in the hands of Ukraine not Russia. The US stopped providing military equipment to Ukraine one year ago, and still Ukraine is fighting, supported by Europe, Canada, Japan, and Australia. European ammo production has steadily been ramping up over the last 4 years, and will reach new records during 2026. Arms and ammo manufacturing in Ukraine has increased massively. End of last year EU provided 90billion EUR support for Ukraine, for 2026/2027. Russian casualties in 2025 have been extremely high, especially the last 5 months. Now, with more efficient sanctions against the Russian shadow fleet but also Russian refineries, the Russian economy is going to be hit real hard in 2026, especially the provinces. By 2027 or early 2028 Moscow will have two choices: either stop this unprovoked, illegal and war crime infested invasion, or risk that Russia will start to disintegrate. Very few predicted USS collapse before it suddenly happened. I predict Russia's collapse within 2 years, unless Putin stop this madness. (I may be wrong of course, Russia may collapse already in 2026).

Russia is losing the war, not Ukraine.

Russia's losses in Ukraine
Russia's provinces going bust

Like with attacking ships... Both sides are playing the game.

-more than 1. 2million causalties,
...Confirmed casualties? By whom? What are the confirmed Ukrainian casualties? ?y whom?
"Britain's defense ministry said in an intelligence update Wednesday that Russia has likely suffered over 1.2 million battlefield casualties since launching its full-scale invasion of Ukraine nearly four years ago."

Russia's 'massive' losses in Ukraine have it heading toward a breaking point, NATO's top official says

Up to 25,000 Russian soldiers are being killed every month, NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte said this week.

www.businessinsider.com

..."Likely" is not any kind of "confirmation". BTW, Oleksandr Syrskyi was giving the same number, he got it from the UK or the other way around?
"Former speaker of Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, deputy Dmitry Razumkov, acknowledged that the country has lost over 500,000 military personnel during the conflict with the same number wounded.
Speaking at a parliamentary session, he cited data from the Rada’s Committee on National Security, Defense and Intelligence indicating more than 500,000 killed and more than 500,000 wounded Ukrainian soldiers. According to the deputy, the "activities of an irresponsible, unprofessional and corrupt government" led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians."
"According to TASS estimates, Ukrainian army losses since February 24, 2022, amount to nearly 1.5 million people killed and wounded."

Parliament member admits 500,000 Ukrainian soldiers killed, just as many wounded

The official number of killed Ukrainian soldiers has not been disclosed, but deputies and military personnel regularly complain about a shortage of personnel

tass.com

...That's another "Likely".

-around 80% of Ukraine is still in the hands of Ukraine
Obviously, Russia tried a coup de main, not “conquest”.

-European ammo production has steadily been ramping up over the last 4 years
And in Russia.
-Arms and ammo manufacturing in Ukraine has increased massively.
And in Russia.

-End of last year EU provided 90billion EUR support for Ukraine
"The European Commission has proposed a €90 billion loan to provide Ukraine with financial support in 2026 and 2027, alongside changes to existing EU budget rules needed to underpin the plan."

€90bn EU loan for Ukraine splits funds between military aid and services

Ukraine’s €90bn EU loan plan heads for approval. Russian assets may fund repayments, highlighting high-stakes legal and financial manoeuvres.

www.brusselstimes.com

...It did not "provide", it did "promise".
"The UK on Friday announced new emergency energy support of £20m ($27m) for Ukraine after Zelenskyy declared a state of emergency following sustained attacks on the country’s power infrastructure. He acted as emergency crews worked to restore heating and electricity in Kyiv and other cities after last week’s attacks by Russia knocked out supplies during sub-zero temperatures. The British support includes funding aimed at keeping electricity and heating on in homes, hospitals and schools across winter."

Ukraine war briefing: Russian attack destroys Kharkiv energy facility as UK pledges emergency support

Response crews at work following strikes in Ukraine’s second city as Britain commits £20m after Zelenskyy declares energy emergency. What we know on day 1,423

www.theguardian.com

...And more is needed already, now.
Zelenskyy meanwhile conceded problems with Ukrainian air defences at a critical moment in the war. Some systems supplied to Ukraine by western allies had run out of ammunition amid a wave of Russian attacks that have devastated his country’s energy infrastructure. “Until this morning we had several systems without missiles. Today I can say this openly because today I have those missiles … We received a substantial package in the morning.” He urged both European allies and the US to increase deliveries.
The Czech Republic is set to provide Ukraine shortly with “medium combat planes which are highly effective in fighting drones”. (The Czech army has 24 one- and two-seater L-159 jets.)

Ukraine war briefing: Czechs offer drone-hunting jets as Zelenskyy flags air defence shortages

The light L-159 fighter is likely the plane promised by president of Czech Republic, Petr Pavel, to Volodymyr Zelenskyy. What we know on day 1,424

www.theguardian.com

...As you can see, more and now. Ukraine seems to be living from one day to next. "Shortly", 24 aircraft, not 240.

-Russian casualties in 2025 have been extremely high
Confirmed? What about Ukrainians casualties?

-more efficient sanctions against the Russian shadow fleet but also Russian refineries
Just, how efficient?

-the Russian economy is going to be hit real hard in 2026
Really? How hard exactly, is Russia going to go back to the stone age? Without heating? What about the Ukrainian economy?

-By 2027 or early 2028 Moscow... I predict Russia's collapse within 2 years... Russia may collapse already in 2026.
You cannot see the contradiction there? Ukraine has been hit hard and is still in the fight. Russia will be hit "hard"... And will stop fighting? Anyway, we won't have to wait that long to confirm your wisdom.

-Ukrainians are extremely highly motivated to fight
Specially the deserters, 2,200,000 highly motivated Ukrainians.

https://edition.cnn.com/2026/01/14/world/ukraines-new-defense-chief-reveals-200-000-soldiers-have-gone-awol-and-2-million-are-draft-dodging

-Ukraine will be exposed to another genocide.
You seem to be the only person to say that.

-When the will to fight is strong enough, the invader will ultimately lose.
Has to be an invader? Civil wars/revolutions don't count? That is the definition of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

-it's when you look at specific regions it becomes clear that there are serious issues in some regions
Unlike in Ukraine?
Russia has to fail, but you don't consider that Ukraine may fail first. I see the difficulties, I cannot see the doom, even when Ukraine is at the receiving end.

 

[rsemmes]

Frankly I think this is B.S. European nations are responsible for things like the Holocaust and the Belgian Congo. I would argue that Russia committing war crimes is very much in line with the history of European nations.

You sound like me.

 

[Beltrami2005]

You sound like me.

May i ask what country are you from?

 

[rsemmes]

You may...

I have been to Russia and to other countries, your impression does not make reality. Have you been to any "drug's corner" in the US?

 

[Beltrami2005]

You may...

I have been to Russia and to other countries, your impression does not make reality. Have you been to any "drug's corner" in the US?

No its a honest question. It helps to understand the other perspective.

I may only be 21 but i have visited well over 40 countries, including Greenland, Antarctica or New Caledonia. I know what privilege that is. But visiting countries doesnt form perspective. I would like to know where you come from. It would help me to understand your point of view.

Btw i see USA just as much as our enemy as Russia.

 

[rsemmes]

No its a honest question. It helps to understand the other perspective.

I may only be 21 but i have visited well over 40 countries, including Greenland, Antarctica or New Caledonia. I know what privilege that is. But visiting countries doesnt form perspective. I would like to know where you come from. It would help me to understand your point of view.

Btw i see USA just as much as our enemy as Russia.

No, it doesn't.
The right question would have been if my passport, the country I was born, the countries I have been living or the country I am living now have anything to do with my opinion.
You missed the point or you don't want to see the point? Is not about "our" enemies, it's about defining the US because, once, you were at a "drug's corner" in the US.
My POV is that you haven't read enough to have an informed opinion, but you have already decided what the world is and how it works. I have spent more than 21 years reading and I still don't have an informed enough opinion. Something that is made evident just by reading some of the posts here; including older ones.

 

[Beltrami2005]

No, it doesn't.
The right question would have been if my passport, the country I was born, the countries I have been living or the country I am living now have anything to do with my opinion.
You missed the point or you don't want to see the point? Is not about "our" enemies, it's about defining the US because, once, you were at a "drug's corner" in the US.
My POV is that you haven't read enough to have an informed opinion, but you have already decided what the world is and how it works. I have spent more than 21 years reading and I still don't have an informed enough opinion. Something that is made evident just by reading some of the posts here; including older ones.

I see russia as absolute dystopian hell that is completly alien to our spanish culture in any sort or form. There is nothing on russia that even remotely resembles anything we hold dear in Spain. That said, i see it as absolute paramount strategy to have russias influence on our continent to be neutralized. I understand why all the people that had to endure russian tyranny have fled. The baltics, fins and also ukrainians.

For us its cheap to support Ukraine and on the side gives enormous benefits.

I give you a clear example:

See this bomber here?

This bomber got neutralized as a threat for Europe. It wont be able to send gliding bombs to Warsaw or Berlin or Stockholm. This was done by a drone that costs maybe 500 €.

And this is one example...there are countless others like flagship Moskva...or the 2 submarines that got destroyed.

European defense is rising and muscle up while we have an economic power that absolute dwarfs Russia. On other side russias military gets grinded down.

Evry russian bomber that gets destroyed, evry russian military ship sunk, evry russian subs pressure hull blasted...is a european tactical profit.

From a pure tactical pov ukraine does the dirty work for us.

Meanwhile russias oil export has shrunken by 50%. Energy prices in russia have risen 45%. Life for small russians gets harder and with that the regime gets weaker.

I said the ideal outcome would be a complete collapse of the russian state and fragmentation but i dont think we will be that lucky.

 

[Feanor]

I give you a clear example:

See this bomber here?

This bomber got neutralized as a threat for Europe. It wont be able to send gliding bombs to Warsaw or Berlin or Stockholm. This was done by a drone that costs maybe 500 €.

There is another reason this bomber, and others like it, can't send gliding bombs to Warsaw or Berlin or Stockholm. Something more relevant to the themes and topics discussed on this forum.

 

[Beltrami2005]

There is another reason this bomber, and others like it, can't send gliding bombs to Warsaw or Berlin or Stockholm. Something more relevant to the themes and topics discussed on this forum.

But modern drone warfare accomplished massive damages to the russian strategic bomber fleet. I believe just few years ago nobody would have envisoned that cheap drones can be send via truck far into the russians land and then take out dozens of bombers, which cant be replaced. The war in Ukraine opened completly new tactics and strategies.

 

[crest]

I see russia as absolute dystopian hell that is completly alien to our spanish culture in any sort or form. There is nothing on russia that even remotely resembles anything we hold dear in Spain. That said, i see it as absolute paramount strategy to have russias influence on our continent to be neutralized. I understand why all the people that had to endure russian tyranny have fled. The baltics, fins and also ukrainians.

For us its cheap to support Ukraine and on the side gives enormous benefits.

I give you a clear example:

See this bomber here?

This bomber got neutralized as a threat for Europe. It wont be able to send gliding bombs to Warsaw or Berlin or Stockholm. This was done by a drone that costs maybe 500 €.

And this is one example...there are countless others like flagship Moskva...or the 2 submarines that got destroyed.

European defense is rising and muscle up while we have an economic power that absolute dwarfs Russia. On other side russias military gets grinded down.

Evry russian bomber that gets destroyed, evry russian military ship sunk, evry russian subs pressure hull blasted...is a european tactical profit.

From a pure tactical pov ukraine does the dirty work for us.

Meanwhile russias oil export has shrunken by 50%. Energy prices in russia have risen 45%. Life for small russians gets harder and with that the regime gets weaker.

I said the ideal outcome would be a complete collapse of the russian state and fragmentation but i dont think we will be that lucky.

I know there's no changing you mind but Jesus man your one hate filled dude it's tragic it's so unwarranted. Russia is not what you think Russia is.
On topic that view of whatever happens to Ukrainian is good if it hurts Russia. That is something I fear Ukraines are going to be angry about after this war especially if as a think will happen the e.u cuts funding once the war is over and leaves the rebuilding to russia.
In some fairly consequencial ways this war is going to have some blow back for both the e.u and NATO as far as there credibility and therefore influence with other nations. Let alone the damage done to the trade and banking systems that underpin alot of the e.u influence.

 

[Beltrami2005]

I know there's no changing you mind but Jesus man your one hate filled dude it's tragic it's so unwarranted. Russia is not what you think Russia is.
On topic that view of whatever happens to Ukrainian is good if it hurts Russia. That is something I fear Ukraines are going to be angry about after this war especially if as a think will happen the e.u cuts funding once the war is over and leaves the rebuilding to russia.
In some fairly consequencial ways this war is going to have some blow back for both the e.u and NATO as far as there credibility and therefore influence with other nations. Let alone the damage done to the trade and banking systems that underpin alot of the e.u influence.

I have no hate man. I just see strategy and defense interests. And of course its bad for Ukraine. I even said myself, that its the dirty work. I feel very sorry for that and wish it would be different. War and politics are dirty.