The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

[the concerned]

Just asking when HMS Queen Elizabeth deploys to the far east will one of the aew equipped merlins be available. Just thinking with visits to Japan and maybe Korea that both have carrier ambitions it would be a interesting sales pitch.

 

[ngatimozart]

The UKMOD is looking at CATOBAR EMAL again. For what reason I don't know, but one has to wonder what they have in mind now.

MoD looking at ‘cats and traps’ to launch uncrewed aircraft at sea

The MoD is looking to assess the availability of electromagnetic catapult and arrestor wire systems for the launch and recovery of air vehicles at sea.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

 

[Redlands18]

The UKMOD is looking at CATOBAR EMAL again. For what reason I don't know, but one has to wonder what they have in mind now.

MoD looking at ‘cats and traps’ to launch uncrewed aircraft at sea

The MoD is looking to assess the availability of electromagnetic catapult and arrestor wire systems for the launch and recovery of air vehicles at sea.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

loved the 2nd Comment in the comments section from James
”You could probably use all the steam generated by this thread to power a Catapult”

 

[John Fedup]

loved the 2nd Comment in the comments section from James
”You could probably use all the steam generated by this thread to power a Catapult”

I noticed that comment as well. Have to say it is one of the best ones ever in a forum.

 

[StobieWan]

The UKMOD is looking at CATOBAR EMAL again. For what reason I don't know, but one has to wonder what they have in mind now.

MoD looking at ‘cats and traps’ to launch uncrewed aircraft at sea

The MoD is looking to assess the availability of electromagnetic catapult and arrestor wire systems for the launch and recovery of air vehicles at sea.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Give the amount of upheaval anticipated in fitting EMALS back in 2011, which I'm told involved stripping the ship to deck one, and likely rebuilding the flight deck, one has to wonder. But the QE's are the only decks available for anything that big.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

The UKMOD is looking at CATOBAR EMAL again. For what reason I don't know, but one has to wonder what they have in mind now.

Doesn't the article give the answer?

Before jumping the gun on this news, a bit of perspective is important. Well respected naval analyst Gabriele Molinellli had the following words of caution to say.

UK Defence Journal has more information on RFI for "assisted launch and arrested recovery" for shipboard use. No, Royal Navy's carriers are not turning to catapults. BUT some launch and recovery solutions will be needed in future to deal with large unmanned platforms. https://t.co/lZCxRatiHK
— Gabriele Molinelli (@Gabriel64869839) March 1, 2021

I suppose you could fire a medium-sized UAV off the ramp, but if the RN needs to operate bigger ones I think Signore Molinelli makes a good point.

 

[supersupersoldier]

Just asking when HMS Queen Elizabeth deploys to the far east will one of the aew equipped merlins be available. Just thinking with visits to Japan and maybe Korea that both have carrier ambitions it would be a interesting sales pitch.

They will sail to South China Sea to counter China after COVID, so next year at the earliest.

 

[Redlands18]

They will sail to South China Sea to counter China after COVID, so next year at the earliest.

@supersupersoldier Welcome to the Forum, can i make a suggestion? Cut back on the One Liners the Mods aren’t very found of them, they like to see more detailed responses.
The QE is due to sail East this year 2021, not sure whether they will be carrying Merlin Crowsnests or not.

 

[Albedo]

The QE is due to sail East this year 2021, not sure whether they will be carrying Merlin Crowsnests or not.

Royal Navy's Merlin Crowsnest AEW Helicopter Faces Delays - Naval News

According to a report by the UK National Audit Office (NAO), on Carrier Strike, the initial operational capability (IOC) of the Royal Navy Merlin Crowsnest AEW helicopter will face an 18 month delay.

www.navalnews.com

The Crowsnest kit transforms the Merlin HM.2 of the Royal Navy into an Advanced Early Warning (AEW) helicopter. Without this capability, the carrier strike group’s capabilities will be downgraded. There is a contingency plan for deploying Crowsnest helicopters during CSG21 without IOC, as an interim capability.

Delays likely mean the Merlin AEW won't reach IOC in time for CSG21, but they will still deploy with the carrier. It'll be useful for training, but effectiveness might be limited.

 

[the concerned]

Just a theory question if the carriers had a recovery system is there enough room for a aircraft to launch on its own power.

 

[swerve]

Royal Navy's Merlin Crowsnest AEW Helicopter Faces Delays - Naval News

According to a report by the UK National Audit Office (NAO), on Carrier Strike, the initial operational capability (IOC) of the Royal Navy Merlin Crowsnest AEW helicopter will face an 18 month delay.

www.navalnews.com

Delays likely mean the Merlin AEW won't reach IOC in time for CSG21, but they will still deploy with the carrier. It'll be useful for training, but effectiveness might be limited.

This was supposed to be the low risk, quick, money-saving option. What the hell happened?

Dammit, I think if I could go back in time I'd suggest that Leonardo is asked to develop a system based on a few fixed flat panels, from scratch. Could be quicker & cheaper.

 

[StobieWan]

Just a theory question if the carriers had a recovery system is there enough room for a aircraft to launch on its own power.

Notionally, if it had enough thrust and the nose gear can cope with the ski jump, yes. STOBAR - worst possible outcome ever - low MTOW and bring back weights combined with the smashy-crunchy landing experience.

IMHO.

 

[John Fedup]

Notionally, if it had enough thrust and the nose gear can cope with the ski jump, yes. STOBAR - worst possible outcome ever - low MTOW and bring back weights combined with the smashy-crunchy landing experience.

IMHO.

If only EMALS had been a mature product a decade earlier but would it have made difference assuming the cost might be 0.5 to 1 billion US dollars more? Certainly some of this extra cost could have been offset by less expensive aircraft and the added capability of having Hawkeye.

 

[StobieWan]

If only EMALS had been a mature product a decade earlier but would it have made difference assuming the cost might be 0.5 to 1 billion US dollars more? Certainly some of this extra cost could have been offset by less expensive aircraft and the added capability of having Hawkeye.

It wasn't product maturity that was at question to be honest - the proposed rework would have taken the QE down to deck 2 (not 1 as I'd thought) so that's a heck of a lot of work and systems displaced.

Also, someone had done some very basic accounting fluff-ups, such as assuming that the QE would need two sets of cats and traps which would be half the price of the Ford fit (four cats and traps) - in fact, the stuff down below didn't scale that way. Add in transaction costs for an FMS sale plus the exchange rate and what d'you know, half a billion here, half a billion there and pretty soon you're talking big money.

 

[John Fedup]

It wasn't product maturity that was at question to be honest - the proposed rework would have taken the QE down to deck 2 (not 1 as I'd thought) so that's a heck of a lot of work and systems displaced.

Also, someone had done some very basic accounting fluff-ups, such as assuming that the QE would need two sets of cats and traps which would be half the price of the Ford fit (four cats and traps) - in fact, the stuff down below didn't scale that way. Add in transaction costs for an FMS sale plus the exchange rate and what d'you know, half a billion here, half a billion there and pretty soon you're talking big money.

I should have been clearer, I meant if EMALS actually existed when the QE design was still was being worked on. Absolutely agree, the conversation from VTOL to CATOBAR wasn’t doable financially.

 

[StobieWan]

I should have been clearer, I meant if EMALS actually existed when the QE design was still was being worked on. Absolutely agree, the conversation from VTOL to CATOBAR wasn’t doable financially.

Indeed - which is why I'm so puzzled at the suggestion that the RN is actively looking at adding catapult and arrester gear of any sort now.


Unless they've got something in mind with a much smaller footprint?

Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a good development - I'm just interested to see how this will get plugged into any kind of maintenance and refit schedule.

 

[wowu5]

Indeed - which is why I'm so puzzled at the suggestion that the RN is actively looking at adding catapult and arrester gear of any sort now.


Unless they've got something in mind with a much smaller footprint?

Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a good development - I'm just interested to see how this will get plugged into any kind of maintenance and refit schedule.

That would be the obvious case, judging from the specification of the RFI that asked for catapult with significantly less max power output (max 25 tons) compares to not only the next-gen EMALS (at 45 tons class) but also the contemporary C13 (at 35 tons class), which suggests a much smaller system to begin with.

 

[kato]

25 tons? They'd have to significantly under-load the F-35s to launch them off of that.

Unless they intend to go with buddy-buddy refueling immediately after launch to get a core unit for a UCAV swarm up there, that's always a long-term view possibility...

 

[wowu5]

The implication I get from the number is that it's clearly envisioned for the use of UCAV only, except perhaps Rafale crossdecking in rare/emergency circumstance.

 

[Systems Adict]

I have only x1 thing to say & it's in the form of a video....