The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

Systems Adict

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
t68 said:
whilst I cant read the full article, it seems the UK is moving ahead on a possible multi role amphibious warfare vessel.

early days yet but promising


UK explores Multi-Role Support Ship concept | Jane's 360
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Here we go AGAIN !

Lets just hope that rather than wanting a gold plated Rolls Royce for the price of a Dacia Sandero, that the RN powers-that-be pay attention to the realities of 'asking' for something, getting it (quoted with a price to build it into the design from day one), then deciding to take only 25% of the capability in the design, only to realise that as soon as the ship hits its home base for the first time (7 - 10 years later), that it it instantly needs upgraded to add that missing 75% they never wanted to pay for up front, but that they now have to paying DOUBLE or TREBLE the initially quoted costs(+VAT, + Inflation)...

Better still, keep it simple, nothing too technical / different / new, but leave the space for it & buy it as & when needed, as you go along ?

I better stop there, I forgot that UK Govt PLC doesn't speak or understand 'common sense'....

RANT OVER

SA :D
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
StingrayOZ said:
Why does this feel like the Canadian JSS project which ended up as the Queenston.
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For the the RN's sake, let's hope not. Canada's JSS project was a RCN pipe dream and for years the only progress was mission creep resulting in massive cost increases. Decide on a fixed budget and see what comes closest.
 
S

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well, okay, what does this thing need to be able to do then? Does it need a flooding dock? A helideck and hangar? What's it do? Would it fall within the category of a complex surface combatant and be awarded to a UK shipyard or could be it built in SK or a similar yard and then fitted out in the UK?


Let's lay out what it has to do and try to work from there.
 
t68

t68

Well-Known Member
StingrayOZ said:
Why does this feel like the Canadian JSS project which ended up as the Queenston.
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It does a little,

•MRSS will address future amphibious, forward repair, and medical capability requirements
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Seems like they want a replacement for the Albion's, RFA Diligence and RFA Argus. I wonder if they take of the RAS mast and replace with cranes would something like HNLMS Karel Doorman be a contender?
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
No dock & lacking troop accommodation, so not much good as a direct replacement for the LPDs without considerable modification. Nice ship, but I'd much prefer a couple of LHDs to replace Albion & Bulwark. I think a ship based on her could make a good Argus replacement, though.

Diligence? I despair.
 
t68

t68

Well-Known Member
swerve said:
No dock & lacking troop accommodation, so not much good as a direct replacement for the LPDs without considerable modification. Nice ship, but I'd much prefer a couple of LHDs to replace Albion & Bulwark. I think a ship based on her could make a good Argus replacement, though.

Diligence? I despair.
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Agree about the LHD....

Maybe we are looking at this wrong these may be a Bay, Argus Diligence replacement and another project may come up with Albion Bulwark and Ocean replacement
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Diligence needs a replacement yesterday & Argus soon. The Bays have many years of life left, & given that the LPDs are mostly operating one on, one off so do they.

If one basic platform is to be used in various configurations (one hull & engine set, different above that but common systems where possible), maybe we could do it, but we should have started earlier.
 
Systems Adict

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Systems Adict said:
This turned up in my face ache news feed today, from Navy News...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47m6CqEnndw

"GLIDING gracefully through Japan’s Kanmon Strait to Yokosuka for a brief pit stop, this is the second of four super-tankers built to support Britain’s Fleet of tomorrow.
RFA Tiderace has begun her epic six-week journey from South Korea to Falmouth – via Hawaii and the Panama Canal – to begin her conversion from 39,000-tonne tanker into 39,000-tonne military tanker.
All four ships in the Tide class – -spring, -race, -force and –surge – are being built at the DSME yard in Okpo-dong, before heading to the UK and the A&P yard in Falmouth to receive ‘plug and play’ weaponry such as Phalanx automated guns, secure communications and computer systems.
Once in service, she will provide fuel and other supplies to Britain’s new aircraft carriers – as well as the rest of the Fleet and NATO warships.
Of the quartet, Tidespring is on trials off the South Coast and Tideforce has recently begun her sea trials in South Korea.
Video courtesy of jinmei.jp"
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2 weeks on & she has hit the West coast of the US of A....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8NlASPnCjU&feature=youtu.be

:D
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The RN is so luckly in the progress of this program compared to the RCN's Berlin class AOR. No realistic date as to when metal will be cut and best guesstimates on cost will far frigging exceed Tide costs. Oh, and on build quality, not a happy discussion. Maybe it doesn't matter given the progress on the CSC program. When things look bleak for the RN, just think of the RCN!
 
H

hauritz

Well-Known Member
I just noticed that the RN is about to officially launch its competition for the type 31 frigate with the first ship scheduled to enter service in 2023.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...or-type-31-frigates-just-not-going-to-happen/

The project price tag of £2 billion for 6 ships is either ambitious or concerning ... depending on your view.

Ships can be built to a budget of course but it is hard to imagine much more than a glorified OPV for that sort of money. It would seem that the £350 million type 31 will be closer in capability to the £150 million River class OPV than it is to the £1 billion type 26.
 
4

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
John Fedup said:
The RN is so luckly in the progress of this program compared to the RCN's Berlin class AOR. No realistic date as to when metal will be cut and best guesstimates on cost will far frigging exceed Tide costs. Oh, and on build quality, not a happy discussion. Maybe it doesn't matter given the progress on the CSC program. When things look bleak for the RN, just think of the RCN!
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UK’s third Tide-class tanker RFA Tidesurge named in South Korea | Naval Today

First ship delivered, second one in transit, third one just named. Although the first of class was almost a year overdue, the remainder seem to be coming in on schedule and budget. Totally overlooked because of the fuss over the new aircraft carrier, but shaping up to be a very successful procurement programme.

TIDESPRING-VISIT - RFAA Plymouth

These photos from a tour of Tidespring by a group of former RFA personnel give a close-up look at the ship.

I can't help wondering if it would have been more prudent for NZ to opt for a scaled-down version of this design rather than an entirely new vessel from Rolls Royce and Hyundai?
 
V

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
40 deg south said:
I can't help wondering if it would have been more prudent for NZ to opt for a scaled-down version of this design rather than an entirely new vessel from Rolls Royce and Hyundai?
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Guess it depends on the vessel spec's/capabilities and if a scaled down version of this could have such spec's/capabilities integrated with out it effectively becoming a new class of ship.

Oh well, Guess it will be one of those could have been questions.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
40 deg south said:
UK’s third Tide-class tanker RFA Tidesurge named in South Korea | Naval Today

First ship delivered, second one in transit, third one just named. Although the first of class was almost a year overdue, the remainder seem to be coming in on schedule and budget. Totally overlooked because of the fuss over the new aircraft carrier, but shaping up to be a very successful procurement programme.
...

I can't help wondering if it would have been more prudent for NZ to opt for a scaled-down version of this design rather than an entirely new vessel from Rolls Royce and Hyundai?
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Which is exactly what Norway is buying - HNoMS Maud. 20 metres shorter, 2.7 metres slimmer. 26,000 tons instead of 37,000. Commissions this year or next.
 
S

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
40 deg south said:
UK’s third Tide-class tanker RFA Tidesurge named in South Korea | Naval Today

First ship delivered, second one in transit, third one just named. Although the first of class was almost a year overdue, the remainder seem to be coming in on schedule and budget. Totally overlooked because of the fuss over the new aircraft carrier, but shaping up to be a very successful procurement programme.

TIDESPRING-VISIT - RFAA Plymouth

These photos from a tour of Tidespring by a group of former RFA personnel give a close-up look at the ship.

I can't help wondering if it would have been more prudent for NZ to opt for a scaled-down version of this design rather than an entirely new vessel from Rolls Royce and Hyundai?
Click to expand...
Word is if they did it again, they'd have ordered something less complete - there were a lot of reworks for piping, cabling etc that were needed but overall, fairly positive experience.

Next step, order some KDX's :)
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Or buy the new Mitsubishi JMSDF frigate for Type 31. 130 metres by 16, 3900 tons standard, £350 million (50 billion yen) each. Swap a few of their bits for some of ours (don't touch the propulsion - has a Rolls-Royce MT30) - job done.

JMSDF acquisition agency press release - PDF in Japanese, but Google Translate will tell you enough.
 
Systems Adict

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
hauritz said:
I just noticed that the RN is about to officially launch its competition for the type 31 frigate with the first ship scheduled to enter service in 2023.
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Sorry, but I think that there's a bit of miscommunication there !

Based on the comments in the article, HMS Argyll, will be the first Type 23 Frigate to be decommissioned in 2023. This will be just around the time that HMS Glasgow, the 1st Type 26 Frigate, will be ready to enter service.

(Methinks the author may have been spun a salty sea yarn ??)

I can't see a Type 31 hitting the water, ready to go at the same time, unless the order is NOT being built in Scotland.

According to the article, discussions on Type 31 will take place in early September. However, the build strategy for T26 / T31 has always seemed to indicate that they would come AFTER the last Type 26 has entered service, possibly with build commencing somewhere around 2030 ?? That's assuming that UK Govt PLC actually build all x8 ASW Type 26 Frigates & move onto the x5 General purpose Type 31's...


In other news, HMS Forth, the 1st of the RN OPV's commenced her sea trials today. However, I've yet to see any press releases about it, just know it happened, as I saw her sail past as I was driving home at tea time...

:D

SA
 
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