The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I would think the Type 26 timeline should be ok as this is the only show in town. Certainly any new major projects with the works would likely be placed on hold. If the government loses then delays might be possible if a new government decides to review things.
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
PeterCrisp said:
With the UK now going to the polls and thus unable to announce any large procurement programs will this affect the type 26?
Are any other programs going to be disrupted because the government is unable to sign new contracts at this time?
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Type 26 is as safe as anything can be -there's a deal for eight and steel is being cut, the election won't impact that so much and neither party want to cancel the program as it'd be an instant loss of Scots support (mind, we don't have much so maybe who cares!)
 
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40 deg south

Well-Known Member
StobieWan said:
Type 26 is as safe as anything can be -there's a deal for eight and steel is being cut, the election won't impact that so much and neither party want to cancel the program as it'd be an instant loss of Scots support (mind, we don't have much so maybe who cares!)
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Agree the T-26 is safe, but is it pretty damn late. Despite the flak that BAE gets, this looks to me primarily like the fault of MoD/government.

Fincantieri launches seventh FREMM frigate for Italian Navy | Naval Today

DCNS delivers multi-mission frigate Auvergne, the fourth FREMM for the French Navy | DCNS Group

France and Italy are pumping out FREMMs on a regular schedule, and France has now given the green light for a mid-sized frigate with an in-service date of 2025.

Launching of the Intermediate Size Frigate Program
 
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Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I wonder if I dare suggest the possibility of a batch III River Class when the Type 31 is inevitably delayed until well after the Type 26 build is completed.

I can't wait until a comprehensive review sometime in the 2020s will find delaying and cutting the size of builds cost more than just building the ships the RN needed in the first three decades of this century.
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
40 deg south said:
Agree the T-26 is safe, but is it pretty damn late. Despite the flak that BAE gets, this looks to me primarily like the fault of MoD/government.

Fincantieri launches seventh FREMM frigate for Italian Navy | Naval Today

DCNS delivers multi-mission frigate Auvergne, the fourth FREMM for the French Navy | DCNS Group

France and Italy are pumping out FREMMs on a regular schedule, and France has now given the green light for a mid-sized frigate with an in-service date of 2025.

Launching of the Intermediate Size Frigate Program
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I think BAE are blameless so far in any delays to Type 26 - they should have been ordered ten years ago and we'd have had half the Type 23 surface fleet replaced by now, saving a fair chunk of change in refits and ongoing maintenance.

I don't know if there's been wrangling over spec (the RN have a reputation second only to the USN in terms of changing their minds over what they want or expect) or if this is all just down to the global war on terror soaking up funds right at the time these decisions should all have been made.
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Volkodav said:
I wonder if I dare suggest the possibility of a batch III River Class when the Type 31 is inevitably delayed until well after the Type 26 build is completed.

I can't wait until a comprehensive review sometime in the 2020s will find delaying and cutting the size of builds cost more than just building the ships the RN needed in the first three decades of this century.
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Don't get me started, Type 31 makes me spit blood and grow horns - I really can't work out the logic of any of it. There was a really nice straightforward idea of pulling all the kit from the 23's through into the 26's and now suddenly we'll have five sets of radar, missiles, CMS etc to move forward into a totally different hull that'll take forever to agree a spec on. Argh..I've got a dental check up in a few weeks, I have to stop writing about this before I grind my teeth flat...
 
Vulcan

Vulcan

Member
Chinook creates its own issues on board. More modern RAS rigs entering service with the RN can carry F-35 engines in their transport containers, so I guess that's one way to offload that capability.
 
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PeterCrisp

Member
How much press coverage do you expect to be allowed during the sea trials?
I'm hoping they maybe allow a BBC documentary team on board as this is such a huge project and I'm sure they could make a few 1 hour programs even with the restrictions for operational secrecy.
Something like the program they did about the Astute Sub would be nice as it focused on not only the ship but the trainee's as well.
 
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spsun100001

New Member
Type 26 question

It's reported that the Type 26 will be able to carry the Lynx Wildcat or Merlin helicopter. Some reports say that the hangar can accommodate "up to two helicopters". I am assuming from the dimensions of the ship that this means they will be able to carry two Lynx Wildcat or one Merlin helicopter. Does anyone know any different?

The problem for the RN of course is the huge capability gaps in the Merlin and Lynx Wildcat. Merlin has no ASuW capability. Lynx Wildcat will have an ASuW capability when the replacement for Sea Skua arrives but the lack of a data link makes them useless for ocean surveillance and the lack of any sonar buoys makes them useless for the ASW mission.

If the Type 26 were able to carry one of each type of helicopter at the same time then that would deal with the capability gaps that come with deploying with only one or the other. I'm guessing though that this won't be practical.

Does anyone know the situation for sure?
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
I don't think there's been a definite announcement either way and it may come down to sea trials to work out what's practical - a mix of helicopters means a line of parts, tools and people for each however.
 
kev 99

kev 99

Member
There were some pictures a few years ago showing the mission bay used as a second hanger with a Merlin in it. Basically one end opened out doubling the length of the hanger. This was rather a long time ago though and I suspect it was a much earlier version of the Type 26 design.
 
Systems Adict

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
kev 99 said:
There were some pictures a few years ago showing the mission bay used as a second hanger with a Merlin in it. Basically one end opened out doubling the length of the hanger. This was rather a long time ago though and I suspect it was a much earlier version of the Type 26 design.
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Based on the data & images I've seen online & at trade shows the Mission bay is the top of a capital T, with the hangar being the vertical stroke.

The mission bay has a door on either side of the ship & obviously a door into the hangar. The Hangar appears a comparable size to that of the one on Type 45, which we know could accept x2 Lynx, so we can easily read across that it can take x2 Wildcat.

The Mission Bay obviously appears to be big enough to accept a Merlin, which would leave room in the hangar for another one, but the practicalities of running x2 Merlin at the same time would be a stretch, IMHO.

The RN will have an opinion of what they can & can't do with the ship & it's aircraft, but it probably won't become public domain knowledge until the ship enters service in the early 2020's / the RN share the data via their website...

SA
 
t68

t68

Well-Known Member
Vulcan said:
Chinook creates its own issues on board. More modern RAS rigs entering service with the RN can carry F-35 engines in their transport containers, so I guess that's one way to offload that capability.
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Came across this answer from parliamentary question by James Heappey

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, how his Department plans to supply the QEC Carrier Group at extended range with any critical items not held on board an accompanying solid support ship.
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Harriett Baldwin
The supply chain solution for the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers will vary according to the nature of the demand. The Department is currently developing plans for Maritime Intra Theatre Lift (MITL) based upon in-service helicopters.
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John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Great day for the RN. Nice video links. Based on this QE build of two vessels, you could get 3 1/2 QEs for one Ford. The Ford has unique capabilities however but I wonder if the US built 6 of these instead of additional America class ships, would the additional size of the QE justify the extra cost? I would think a build of 6 ships should reduce the cost somewhat compared to the UK build.
 
t68

t68

Well-Known Member
John Fedup said:
Great day for the RN. Nice video links. Based on this QE build of two vessels, you could get 3 1/2 QEs for one Ford. The Ford has unique capabilities however but I wonder if the US built 6 of these instead of additional America class ships, would the additional size of the QE justify the extra cost? I would think a build of 6 ships should reduce the cost somewhat compared to the UK build.
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Don't forget they would have been cheaper if not for the political interventions, can't remember exactly I think the original price was ment to be around 4.5b
 
Systems Adict

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
t68 said:
Don't forget they would have been cheaper if not for the political interventions, can't remember exactly I think the original price was meant to be around 4.5b
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If you've got the time to scan thru the 1st 100 pages of this thread, you'll find on page 22 that the initial cost were circa £3.8Bn, & the history of these cost escalations, their reasoning & the whole diabolical arrangements for the UK RN are laid bare.

...& I find it amusing that it's been 11 years since I 1st dipped my toes into these fora...

:D

SA
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
it's ironic that a lot of the initial procurement steps were pretty sensible - like, buy all the steel in one hit, source a lot of the kit in single batches, make use of the power of buying in as near bulk or continuous supply as you ever can with two ships.

Then we got into a land war in a land locked country with no funding allotted and voila..
 
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