The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
- Start date
Way too small, From memeory the only time the UK in recent time has considered ships that size was under a proposal to replace (Is this still ongoing?) the Hunt and sandown class mine counter measure vessels with a combined fleet of 40 'sloops of war' around 2,000 - 2,500 tons, though likely less now (if any) due to the batch 2 order of the River class.
If they are planning on a yet to be finalized number of vessel's around that size to act as sloops/corvettes then they most deffintly wont get a frigate of the same size as well.
More likely it will be smething in between 4,000 and 6,000 ton's, Speculation on my part but I also wouldnt rule out the Type 26 hull being the basis for the Type 31 just minus most of all the goodies.
If they are planning on a yet to be finalized number of vessel's around that size to act as sloops/corvettes then they most deffintly wont get a frigate of the same size as well.
More likely it will be smething in between 4,000 and 6,000 ton's, Speculation on my part but I also wouldnt rule out the Type 26 hull being the basis for the Type 31 just minus most of all the goodies.
The Italians are getting something at least 129 metres long as a lower tier vessel to supplement their FREMMs & do high-end patrol tasks, & the French are looking at 4-4500 tons for the 'intermediate' frigates to replace the La Fayette class - which is about 3500 tons & 125 metres. The Spanish F110 is also supposed to be in about that size range.
Looks like they've just revived the C3 component from the original FCS brief - I can't see a place for these ships in the RN unless they're planning to decom more OPV's to try and man slightly bigger OPVs.
If the brief is for something cheap and cheerful for low end stop and check work, build it big, with good aviation facilities. Heck, if you're wanting to do counter piracy and anti drugs stuff, the Tide's have better facilities - build another couple of those and get double duty (the Forts were fairly useful in that role for instance, acting as a mother ship for RIBs, helicopters etc)
If the brief is for something cheap and cheerful for low end stop and check work, build it big, with good aviation facilities. Heck, if you're wanting to do counter piracy and anti drugs stuff, the Tide's have better facilities - build another couple of those and get double duty (the Forts were fairly useful in that role for instance, acting as a mother ship for RIBs, helicopters etc)
Fingers crossed they have an attack of the smarts and just go for a simpler Type 26 that can be quickly upgraded to the same or even a higher standard than the Type 26. Anything less would be false economy because when the excrement hits the fan and the glorified OPVs can't hack it they would need to be replaced, were a bare bones Type 26 would just be upgraded with the latest and greatest available bits.
Oh, you can do that pretty well with a smaller ship - but you do it by not including any war fighting stuff, like missiles, sonar with any pretensions of ASW capability, etc.
the concerned
Active Member
wouldn't the t23 once their stripped of the equipment that's going on t26's be a more practical solution than the t31. What I would like to see is a absalon type ship as a alternative
I don't think so. The hulls will definitely be worn out. IIRC, the Type 23 was designed for a short hull life and never intended to get even a mid-life upgrade; it was "a cheap frigate", so thinner plating was used. The rationale being that the cost of replacing the obsolescent electronics made replacement rather than refit of the ship the way to go. The Dutch M class frigates were built with the same philosophy.
Nah I think using a bare Type 26 hull for the Type 31 is still the way to go, Keep the production line going on longer.
For the size of the RN the UK comes off to me as a bit hit and miss with the build plan's with not much in the way of long term plan's for continuous construction. Keeping the same hull across a couple of classes could be a way to start to fix that and leave open a far quicker and cheaper way of switching to building a high end warship if needed.
No, we need a ship building program and new construction is the driver for any decision. I'd personally like to see something large, roomy with plenty of space for mission bays and aviation - a Type 26 lite effectively. I can't for the life of me see a point in a program that produces a larger OPV - the RN has already got more of those than it needs right now.
An Absalon-ised Type 26? It has a certain appeal, & it looks like the perfect ship for pirate-chasing & the like (it could be an enabler for OPVs in such roles, hosting helicopters which use OPVs as lily pads, for example). But I fear it doesn't fit the "cheap & looks it" meme which I suspect is part of the "Type 31" justification, & it certainly doesn't fit the exportable light frigate niche. Though how much of that market is still there?
t68
Well-Known Member
Part of the justification of Type 31 was foreign orders(NZ?) can't see anyone going after these as part of a 1st tier combat vessel.
The UK already have frigate/corvette/OPV designs that are generating overseas sales.
The only justification I can see for building more OPV/corvette sized ships for the RN is if they want to exploit the secondhand ship market.
Mind you the UK has done this in the past. A comparatively new bay class LPD was sold to Australia, midlife Type 23's sold to Chile, practically unused Upholder subs sold to Canada and so on.
CdnDefWriter
New Member
Actually, the above sales had nothing to do with exploiting the secondhand ship market to boost sales. They were purely monetary-driven by UK Treasury in budget cutting Strategic Defence and Security Reviews (SDSRs).
1991 SDSR - Upholders, now our Victoria-class. nominally to 'focus' on SSN capability.
1998 SDSR - premature T-23 retirements.
2010 SDSR - premature Bay-class LSD(A) retirement.
The interest from the RNZN perspective has been definitively in a Type 26 level Frigate not a lesser Type 31 that is being promoted so far. That was made crystal clear in the Q&A following a DWP briefing I attended 12 months ago. So lets just knock that off base speculation on the head then shall we.
Trident to be renewed.
MPs vote to renew Trident: Jeremy Corbyn suffers biggest rebellion of his leadership as Britain's nuclear deterrent backed by 472 to 117
The SNP voted against it of course. Corbyn facing more pressure. A Brexit and the loss of Trident in the same month would have been unthinkable.
MPs vote to renew Trident: Jeremy Corbyn suffers biggest rebellion of his leadership as Britain's nuclear deterrent backed by 472 to 117
The SNP voted against it of course. Corbyn facing more pressure. A Brexit and the loss of Trident in the same month would have been unthinkable.
Round two of the UK House of Commons Defence Select Committee inquiry into Type 26 & Type 45 held yesterday. Witnesses were the new First Sea Lord, the new Undersecretary for Defence, & the CEO of the DE&S procurement agency.
Parliamentlive.tv - Defence Committee
The short version for those without the stamina to watch the full 1 hour 40 minutes.
(link)
Mostly concerns the production schedule for Type 26. Interesting that Type 26 design is still only 60% complete. Lots of shagging about & delays, trying to improve 'best value'.
Parliamentlive.tv - Defence Committee
The short version for those without the stamina to watch the full 1 hour 40 minutes.
(link)
Mostly concerns the production schedule for Type 26. Interesting that Type 26 design is still only 60% complete. Lots of shagging about & delays, trying to improve 'best value'.
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I can tell you all about how frustrating best value is in this case. BAe want commercial spec equipment at commercial spec prices, but they want all this commercial spec equipment to meet mil spec for shock, vibration and EMC protection. They can't have it both way's, they either agree to full mil spec and pay for it or purchase commercial spec equipment which will do the job and pay commerial prices.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
HMS Ambush collided with a merchant ship off Gibraltar, both BBC and CNN reported. Damage seems to be minimal at first glance, no crew injuries.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Will watch later. No wonder the BAE exec was so evasive during the first round when he was asked about when they could begin cutting steel, only 60% completion on the design is very disappointing news.
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