kev 99
Member
I don't know about too small but they definitely don't operate Merlin, T45s will have hanger facilities large enough for Merlin but won't get the handling gear for it initially.
The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
- Start date
Its not just their hanger space, but the size of their heli deck.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
One of the Argentinian T42's was modified with a bigger flight deck and hanger to handle Sea Kings.
good news on the RN pirate hunting front
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7725771.stm
Navy shoots pirate suspects dead
By Caroline Wyatt
Defence correspondent, BBC News
Crew surrenders
The crew of the dhow surrendered after being circled by navy launches
The Royal Navy has repelled a pirate attack on a Danish cargo-ship off the coast of Yemen, shooting dead two men believed to be Somali pirates.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the incident took place on Tuesday, when HMS Cumberland crew members tried to board a traditional wooden dhow.
The Yemeni-flagged vessel was identified as having been involved in an earlier attack on the Danish ship
An MoD spokesman said the pirates were shot in self-defence.
After initial attempts to stop the dhow failed, the Royal Navy launched sea boats to encircle the vessel.
The British seamen were fired on and shot back before the dhow was boarded and its crew surrendered.
Third death
An MoD Spokesman said: "Two foreign nationals, believed to be Somali pirates, were shot and killed in self-defence.
"A Yemeni national was also found injured and later died, despite receiving emergency treatment from the ship's doctor.
"It is unclear whether his injuries were as a result of the fire-fight or a previous incident involving the pirates."
A post-shooting investigation is being carried out, the spokesman added.
Details of the incident emerged when Russian navy spokesman Igor Dygalo revealed the frigate Neustrashimy (Fearless), from its Baltic Sea Fleet, had also tried to rescue the Danish vessel MV Powerful.
HMS Cumberland
HMS Cumberland is taking part in Nato anti-piracy operations
He said the two warships repelled the attempted raid after the pirates fired weapons at the Danish ship and twice tried to board it.
HMS Cumberland, a Plymouth-based Type 22 frigate, is currently deployed on a piracy-fighting mission in the Gulf of Aden as part of a Nato taskforce.
There has been a rise in attacks on merchant shipping and aid shipments in the area.
The boarding took place 60 nautical miles south of the Yemeni coast, inside the Maritime Security Patrol Area.
The MoD said the boarding operation was conducted "in accordance with UK Rules of Engagement".
Pirates have been causing havoc in one of the world's busiest shipping areas, making the waters off the Horn of Africa some of the world's most dangerous.
The pirates prey on one of the world's key shipping routes, which leads to the Suez Canal, the transit point for up to a third of the world's oil.
Rocket grenades
Pirates have hijacked more than 30 ships so far this year, twice as many as last year, with the ransoms paid to them by governments or ship-owners far higher than in previous years.
The pirates are equipped with speedboats and armed with automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades.
They have taken millions of dollars in ransoms and their actions have led to a hike in insurance costs for shipping and threatened humanitarian supplies.
A Turkish-flagged tanker with a 14-man crew became the latest victim of the pirates when it was hijacked off Yemen on Wednesday, according to the Anatolia news agency.
Last month, a maritime watchdog said that Somali pirates were responsible for nearly a third of all reported attacks on ships.
at last seeing an RN effect on pirate attacks
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7725771.stm
Navy shoots pirate suspects dead
By Caroline Wyatt
Defence correspondent, BBC News
Crew surrenders
The crew of the dhow surrendered after being circled by navy launches
The Royal Navy has repelled a pirate attack on a Danish cargo-ship off the coast of Yemen, shooting dead two men believed to be Somali pirates.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the incident took place on Tuesday, when HMS Cumberland crew members tried to board a traditional wooden dhow.
The Yemeni-flagged vessel was identified as having been involved in an earlier attack on the Danish ship
An MoD spokesman said the pirates were shot in self-defence.
After initial attempts to stop the dhow failed, the Royal Navy launched sea boats to encircle the vessel.
The British seamen were fired on and shot back before the dhow was boarded and its crew surrendered.
Third death
An MoD Spokesman said: "Two foreign nationals, believed to be Somali pirates, were shot and killed in self-defence.
"A Yemeni national was also found injured and later died, despite receiving emergency treatment from the ship's doctor.
"It is unclear whether his injuries were as a result of the fire-fight or a previous incident involving the pirates."
A post-shooting investigation is being carried out, the spokesman added.
Details of the incident emerged when Russian navy spokesman Igor Dygalo revealed the frigate Neustrashimy (Fearless), from its Baltic Sea Fleet, had also tried to rescue the Danish vessel MV Powerful.
HMS Cumberland
HMS Cumberland is taking part in Nato anti-piracy operations
He said the two warships repelled the attempted raid after the pirates fired weapons at the Danish ship and twice tried to board it.
HMS Cumberland, a Plymouth-based Type 22 frigate, is currently deployed on a piracy-fighting mission in the Gulf of Aden as part of a Nato taskforce.
There has been a rise in attacks on merchant shipping and aid shipments in the area.
The boarding took place 60 nautical miles south of the Yemeni coast, inside the Maritime Security Patrol Area.
The MoD said the boarding operation was conducted "in accordance with UK Rules of Engagement".
Pirates have been causing havoc in one of the world's busiest shipping areas, making the waters off the Horn of Africa some of the world's most dangerous.
The pirates prey on one of the world's key shipping routes, which leads to the Suez Canal, the transit point for up to a third of the world's oil.
Rocket grenades
Pirates have hijacked more than 30 ships so far this year, twice as many as last year, with the ransoms paid to them by governments or ship-owners far higher than in previous years.
The pirates are equipped with speedboats and armed with automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades.
They have taken millions of dollars in ransoms and their actions have led to a hike in insurance costs for shipping and threatened humanitarian supplies.
A Turkish-flagged tanker with a 14-man crew became the latest victim of the pirates when it was hijacked off Yemen on Wednesday, according to the Anatolia news agency.
Last month, a maritime watchdog said that Somali pirates were responsible for nearly a third of all reported attacks on ships.
at last seeing an RN effect on pirate attacks
citizen578
New Member
Great news! A big Bravo Zulu [well done] to the RN! 
Hopefully this is evidence of a more robust approach and a change in RoE's for the RN. Long overdue.
Hopefully this is evidence of a more robust approach and a change in RoE's for the RN. Long overdue.
Being good at stating the obvious, the answer is actually very straight forward...
When the T-22's & T-42's where being designed it was practice to hard fit ALL equipment shelfs in the hanger. Roughly translated each ships was designed to take a particular type of helo, & NOTHING ELSE !
(i.e Wasp/ Lynx/Sea King/Wessex)
The T-23's started out in a similar way, but as the 1990's progressed, the Merlin was becoming the Future "Helo of choice" for the RN. To help make that easier, it was agreed to start fitting "Modular Equipment", so that lockers & stowages could be changed out with ease, dependant on the helo required.
As this process only really affected the last two batches of 3 T-23's, it meant that the only time the others could be changed is when they went for their 5 year re-fits.
As far as I am aware this task has been completed across all T-23's.
W.R.T. T-45, I understand that they will be capable of taking any helo from the UK's Arsenal, as they have a flight deck which is about 1/3rd bigger than that of a T-23, therefore anything from Lynx thru to the Longbow, with a possibility of even taking the V-22 Osprey Tilt-rotor, should fit. (assuming the RN ever get the budget to buy any!)
In other news...
HMS Dauntless is expected to go on her 1st batch of sea-trials during the next week, while HMS Dragon, the 4th T-45, will be launched.
This means that for about 2 months or so (After Dauntless returns from Trials), there will be x4 T-45's on the River Clyde near Glasgow (possibly one of the few times they will all be together !)
SA
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T-45 it could defiantly take a V22 as the BAE stuff has it that the helo deck can take a Chinook which is bigger
Is the Merlin a better ASW platform than the Lynx? and is the Sea Skua missile reaching the end of its life.
Has the targeting/surveillance system on the Lynx been improved since the first gulf war. I read that the Lynx and American Navy SH-60B had to work in tandem because the surveillance equipment on the Lynx was poor.
http://books.google.com/books?id=er...orm+at+Sea:+What+the+Navy+Really+Did#PPA58,M1
The link to the book with the info I used. Shame its £70 at Waterstones it looks a great read.
If the T45s have the Merlin then they really will be not well equipped to defend attacks from the surface apart from the deck gun.
Has the targeting/surveillance system on the Lynx been improved since the first gulf war. I read that the Lynx and American Navy SH-60B had to work in tandem because the surveillance equipment on the Lynx was poor.
http://books.google.com/books?id=er...orm+at+Sea:+What+the+Navy+Really+Did#PPA58,M1
The link to the book with the info I used. Shame its £70 at Waterstones it looks a great read.
If the T45s have the Merlin then they really will be not well equipped to defend attacks from the surface apart from the deck gun.
kev 99
Member
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Talking of Photo Ops...
http://www.inverclydenow.com/ShowGallery.asp?ID=374
Some Pics of HMS Dauntless on her way down the River Clyde, near Greenock.
(Wish they were mine, but credit to the peeps who took them as it was a right rotten day, weather wise!)
SA:
http://www.inverclydenow.com/ShowGallery.asp?ID=374
Some Pics of HMS Dauntless on her way down the River Clyde, near Greenock.
(Wish they were mine, but credit to the peeps who took them as it was a right rotten day, weather wise!)
SA
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kev 99
Member
Glad I'm not the only one that has noticed and wondered about this.
...Here I am , again to state the obvious....
One word, Soot !
It's been a Navy thing for years, this area is where the exhaust comes out of the funnel / smoke stack, so it's easier to paint this area black from the start, so it doesn't dis-colour over time.
Another reason is to do with, of all things, camouflage. I'm led to believe that it helps the mast & higher structures of the ship blend in with the surrounding environment, especially from a distance. That's one of the main reasons why warships where painted Grey, to blend in with the sea & the sky.
Hope this helps...
SA
One word, Soot !
It's been a Navy thing for years, this area is where the exhaust comes out of the funnel / smoke stack, so it's easier to paint this area black from the start, so it doesn't dis-colour over time.
Another reason is to do with, of all things, camouflage. I'm led to believe that it helps the mast & higher structures of the ship blend in with the surrounding environment, especially from a distance. That's one of the main reasons why warships where painted Grey, to blend in with the sea & the sky.
Hope this helps...
SA
I pass the yards twice a day and have been thinking about the black coverings.
I originally thought it might have be to reduce the reflections from the search radar as it scans past the main mast,but its on the mast of the search radar too, so that wrong.
Do the the Italian and French Horizon's have similar coatings
Just checked no they don't
I originally thought it might have be to reduce the reflections from the search radar as it scans past the main mast,but its on the mast of the search radar too, so that wrong.
Do the the Italian and French Horizon's have similar coatings
Just checked no they don't
kev 99
Member
Cheers, you wouldn't believe how long I've been wondering about that.
citizen578
New Member
HMS Dragon, the Navy's latest Type 45 Destroyer, is launched.
http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=7731
http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=7731
The out of service dates of all the RNs current frigates have rather quietly been extended. According to Nauticus27 on Warships1, he extracted the following from Hansard -
As at September 2007:
Type 22 Class
Name Out of service date
HMS Cornwall 2015
HMS Campbeltown 2017
HMS Cumberland 2017
HMS Chatham 2018
Type 23 Class
Name Out of service date
HMS Argyll 2019
HMS Lancaster 2019
HMS Iron Duke 2020
HMS Monmouth 2021
HMS Montrose 2021
HMS Westminster 2021
HMS Northumberland 2022
HMS Richmond 2022
HMS Somerset 2023
HMS Sutherland 2025
HMS Kent 2028
HMS Portland 2028
HMS St. Albans 2029
As at November 2008:
Name Out-of-service date
HMS Argyll 2023
HMS Lancaster 2024
HMS Iron Duke 2025
HMS Monmouth 2026
HMS Montrose 2027
HMS Westminster 2028
HMS Northumberland 2029
HMS Richmond 2030
HMS Somerset 2031
HMS Sutherland 2033
HMS Portland 2035
HMS Kent 2034
HMS St Albans 2036
Name Out-of-service date
HMS Cornwall 2019
HMS Cumberland 2021
HMS Campbeltown 2020
HMS Chatham 2022
This has considerable implications for fleet size, & the future surface combatant replacement programme. It may necessitate a service life extension programme, & certainly settles all arguments about whether new radars, missiles etc are necessary for current escorts.
As at September 2007:
Type 22 Class
Name Out of service date
HMS Cornwall 2015
HMS Campbeltown 2017
HMS Cumberland 2017
HMS Chatham 2018
Type 23 Class
Name Out of service date
HMS Argyll 2019
HMS Lancaster 2019
HMS Iron Duke 2020
HMS Monmouth 2021
HMS Montrose 2021
HMS Westminster 2021
HMS Northumberland 2022
HMS Richmond 2022
HMS Somerset 2023
HMS Sutherland 2025
HMS Kent 2028
HMS Portland 2028
HMS St. Albans 2029
As at November 2008:
Name Out-of-service date
HMS Argyll 2023
HMS Lancaster 2024
HMS Iron Duke 2025
HMS Monmouth 2026
HMS Montrose 2027
HMS Westminster 2028
HMS Northumberland 2029
HMS Richmond 2030
HMS Somerset 2031
HMS Sutherland 2033
HMS Portland 2035
HMS Kent 2034
HMS St Albans 2036
Name Out-of-service date
HMS Cornwall 2019
HMS Cumberland 2021
HMS Campbeltown 2020
HMS Chatham 2022
This has considerable implications for fleet size, & the future surface combatant replacement programme. It may necessitate a service life extension programme, & certainly settles all arguments about whether new radars, missiles etc are necessary for current escorts.
could you link the thread as i be interested pleased to see the T-22 dates have been extended as they are so useful and there size makes a big differences for EMF on anti piracy.
The policy here is not to link to other fora, & as a moderator I should stick to the rules.
The Warships1 thread is called "Type 45 Units 7 & 8 Cancelled - FSC to be brought forward ", under the "Royal Navy" forum. It should be easy to find.