The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
This is a good article to start with: http://navy-matters.beedall.com/mars.htm

Plus this for the Fleet Tanker part of MARS:http://navy-matters.beedall.com/ft.htm

As you can see it makes little mention of replacing the Waves, with MARS being an 11 ship program to conclude in 2021. Therefore I have always presumed the Wave class will continue in service beyond the MARS program.
yep you must be right as they are just over 5 years old and are young so their will probably be a separate program for them
 
escort force reduced to 22 as 3 destroyers have been mothballed, this is a Jane,s source.

Royal Navy mothballs three more destroyers
The UK Royal Navy's (RN's) destroyer/frigate force has effectively been reduced to 22 operational ships after the Type 42 Batch 2 destroyers HMS Exeter , HMS Southampton and HMS Nottingham were brought alongside and placed at reduced readiness ahead of their declared out-of-service dates. All three ships remain in commission, but are considered unlikely to go to sea again under the white ensign, barring a major contingency
 

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
escort force reduced to 22 as 3 destroyers have been mothballed, this is a Jane,s source.

Royal Navy mothballs three more destroyers
The UK Royal Navy's (RN's) destroyer/frigate force has effectively been reduced to 22 operational ships after the Type 42 Batch 2 destroyers HMS Exeter , HMS Southampton and HMS Nottingham were brought alongside and placed at reduced readiness ahead of their declared out-of-service dates. All three ships remain in commission, but are considered unlikely to go to sea again under the white ensign, barring a major contingency
not mothballed reduced readiness. slightly different it just means the vessels unlikely to go to sea before decommissioned and the loss of 4 T42 B2 is hardly terrible as the T45 coming and they are replacing these old stalwarts.
 

windscorpion

New Member
Are these the T42s the ones that have already had much of their weapon suite removed? If so then there probably isn't a great deal they could do anyway war-wise.
 

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
not mothballed reduced readiness. slightly different it just means the vessels unlikely to go to sea before decommissioned and the loss of 4 T42 B2 is hardly terrible as the T45 coming and they are replacing these old stalwarts.
Mmm.. "Hardly Terrible" ???

Daring won't officially belong to the RN until around January 2009. Then she'll spend at least 1 year in work-ups, prior to being declared "Operational".


So, does putting 4 ships into "Reduced Readiness", almost 18 months before their 1 replacement is ready is wise?


You tell me.....

SA :nutkick
 

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
Mmm.. "Hardly Terrible" ???

Daring won't officially belong to the RN until around January 2009. Then she'll spend at least 1 year in work-ups, prior to being declared "Operational".


So, does putting 4 ships into "Reduced Readiness", almost 18 months before their 1 replacement is ready is wise?


You tell me.....

SA :nutkick
you obviously no that crews have to be transferred from old to new ships have to be worked up. The the T42B2 aren't much liked and are limited and becoming more expensive so whats the point in sending them sailing round on Caribbean tours when there old and getting more expensive when the replacements coming round the corner. Of course if there's a crisis they will be returned to full service [like in Intrepid in 1982]
 

ASFC

New Member
I should point out Gents only 3 Ships have been mentioned.

Are any of the remaining 5 in refit? I ask because as 5 is the number required (remember they said they wanted 5 operational Darings and 1 in refit etc) I suggest all they have done is gone to the bare minimum Destroyers required so that they can release crews for retraining on the new ships.
 

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I thought MARS was going as planned-with bids for the construction of 6 Fleet Tankers being processed.

Navy-Matters has said that the Fort (II) Class will be retired on replacement by MARS (apparently being single hull tankers), but I presume that the Wave class have a secure future and are not included for replacement by MARS, being still quite young (by RFA standards) in 2020?
The Wave class tankers (I think I'm correct in stating this), were the 1st tankers that the RN/RFA had that are double hulled to comply with various Maritime regulations...

http://www.imo.org/Safety/mainframe.asp?topic_id=155

In other words, as the other ships start to reach the 30 year old mark (as listed in the link, they must be replaced. With the RFA Orangeleaf being one of the oldest & the Rover class starting to fall into that category, they'll be 1st to get it in the neck.

As the Waves were only entered into service in 2003, it will be a while before they're replaced....

SA
 

kev 99

Member
More positive news:

National News

back

Ministry Of Defence
Thursday 25 September 2008 12:04
Ministry Of Defence (National)

A Daring success

The first of the Royal Navy's new powerful T45 Destroyers, HMS Daring, has completed her final set of contractor sea trials with great success.

During the five week trial, the 7,350 tonne vessel was put through her paces. In particular, the full range of communications equipment was tested to ensure that all elements of the system can talk to each other.

Previous trials have seen Daring demonstrate her speed and manoeuvrability in varied conditions, as well as testing her state of the art radar and missile systems. These further sea trials have reaffirmed her capability.

Minister for Defence Equipment and Support, Baroness Ann Taylor said:
"The Type 45 Destroyers are the most advanced ships of their type in the world to date and will provide the backbone of the Royal Navy's air defence. The combat system trials are vital, giving the Royal Navy confidence that the ship has the ability to defend herself and her company from even the most sophisticated anti-ship missile."

"I am delighted that Daring has passed a further milestone with the completion of these sea trials. This highlights once again the outstanding progress being made on the Type 45 programme."

Alan Johnston, Chief Executive of BVT, said:
"Daring has continued to surpass expectations, and once again has proved a proud testament to the outstanding skills of the men and women who have designed and built her.

"She is a great example of the core engineering skills that we possess in the UK maritime sector and will provide the Royal Navy with an outstanding capability for many years to come."

The ship's Commanding Officer, Captain Paul Bennett OBE Royal Navy said:

'As we move towards raising the white ensign for the first time, this third successful set of sea trials has further strengthened the bond between the sailors who will operate her and the engineers who built her. Without doubt this successful partnership will deliver Daring to the Royal Navy on time."

Daring possesses the Fully Integrated Communications System (FICS) which is a state of the art communications system, comprising satellite communications, high frequency and V/UHF capabilities via the ship's own dedicated radio and communication plan management system. The FICS was tested to its limits during the trials, with 30 or more operators using all aspects of the system from all over the ship simultaneously. This was the ultimate test to prove that FICS can seamlessly operate and manage a full range of communication frequencies, and included a video conference via satellite between at sea and a land based team.

The ship's company also undertook a large number of familiarisation and training activities as part of preparations for the transfer of custody of the vessel from BVT to the Royal Navy, which is planned for December.

The second Type 45 destroyer, DAUNTLESS, is due to commence her first set of Stage 1 sea trials in early November.
http://nds.coi.gov.uk/Content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=379697&NewsAreaID=2
 

ASFC

New Member
Submarine HMS Superb will de-commission this week after 30 years of service so the submarine force will be reduced to only 7 vessels, the trafalgars, waiting for the astutes, as happened with the escort force the labour government has reduced the submarine force from 12 to 7 units.
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.13778/changeNav/6568
Only you would post such rubbish, degrading the RN yet again . The Sub Force has gone from 16 down to 12. Get over it it, we still have the largest Sub Fleet in Europe and one of the most capable sub fleets in the world. Yes Sceptre is still in service, until at least 2010.
 
Only you would post such rubbish, degrading the RN yet again . The Sub Force has gone from 16 down to 12. Get over it it, we still have the largest Sub Fleet in Europe and one of the most capable sub fleets in the world. Yes Sceptre is still in service, until at least 2010.
I am degrading ?? the submarine force has gone to 12 ?? how many swiftsures are in service if your government decommissions ships is not my fault, ok I mistake you have 8 submarines not 12, if you read my posts you will discover that i am a critic with these reductions, of ourse they have been replacing by most capable ships as the type 45 or astutes but in a ratio of 2 old ships per 1 new and still I think that 1 ship can,t be allocated in 2 different places at the same time and if you think i am degrading the R.N. there are a lot of people who degratde it too starting with Richard Beedall and dozens of defence experts who critic the defence policy ot the current British government, you don,t mistake a critic with degrading, I would like not to see such heavy reductions in the number of hulls if you are happy with this policy I respect your opinion, I think it,s not the best for the european defence to see an aver decreasing number in the hulls of the british navy, in contrast in my country Spain the number of hulls has not been reduced many years ago and the navy is improving the capabilities, I know that the ordering of the 2 carriers are very good news but with the FAA shared with the RAF we will see how many fighters go to sea in each carrier, maybe we will see british carriers with Spanish or Italians F35,s as we have seen now recently in Illustrious with foreign harriers simply because there were not enough british harriers to fly on 1 single small carrier, if you are happy with this ok..
 
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ASFC

New Member
The fleet of Nuclear Submarines has gone from 16 down to 12.....

.........unless of course the Vanguards are no longer considered to be submarines! :roll:

We still have the biggest (First Class Frigate/Destroyer in French terms) Escort fleet in the EU.

We have the largest Amphibious force in Europe (and probably second only to the USN worldwide)

We will soon have the largest Carrier Force in Europe (in pure tonnage/aircraft carried)

We have one of the largest MCM forces in Europe.

We have a support ship fleet second only to that of the US (and growing as MARS is introduced).

The only problems the RN has is that it could probably do with more Frigates, and there is concern it lacks enough F-35s for the Carriers. But then again if the RN cannot resolve its differences with the RAF then I would suggest there is a deeper problem with Britains Armed Forces than just the number of Frigates we own.

Like most Armed Forces worldwide it would like a bigger budget, but it works with what it has got and no matter how big the RN is my country can continue to be proud of the work our sailors do.
 
The fleet of Nuclear Submarines has gone from 16 down to 12.....

.........unless of course the Vanguards are no longer considered to be submarines! :roll:

We still have the biggest (First Class Frigate/Destroyer in French terms) Escort fleet in the EU.

We have the largest Amphibious force in Europe (and probably second only to the USN worldwide)

We will soon have the largest Carrier Force in Europe (in pure tonnage/aircraft carried)

We have one of the largest MCM forces in Europe.

We have a support ship fleet second only to that of the US (and growing as MARS is introduced).

The only problems the RN has is that it could probably do with more Frigates, and there is concern it lacks enough F-35s for the Carriers. But then again if the RN cannot resolve its differences with the RAF then I would suggest there is a deeper problem with Britains Armed Forces than just the number of Frigates we own.

Like most Armed Forces worldwide it would like a bigger budget, but it works with what it has got and no matter how big the RN is my country can continue to be proud of the work our sailors do.
I know that the sailors are the best in the R.N, they are second to none in the world.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
I am degrading ?? the submarine force has gone to 12 ?? how many swiftsures are in service if your government decommissions ships is not my fault, ok I mistake you have 8 submarines not 12, if you read my posts you will discover that i am a critic with these reductions, of ourse they have been replacing by most capable ships as the type 45 or astutes but in a ratio of 2 old ships per 1 new and still I think that 1 ship can,t be allocated in 2 different places at the same time and if you think i am degrading the R.N. there are a lot of people who degratde it too starting with Richard Beedall and dozens of defence experts who critic the defence policy ot the current British government, you don,t mistake a critic with degrading, I would like not to see such heavy reductions in the number of hulls if you are happy with this policy I respect your opinion, I think it,s not the best for the european defence to see an aver decreasing number in the hulls of the british navy, in contrast in my country Spain the number of hulls has not been reduced many years ago and the navy is improving the capabilities, I know that the ordering of the 2 carriers are very good news but with the FAA shared with the RAF we will see how many fighters go to sea in each carrier, maybe we will see british carriers with Spanish or Italians F35,s as we have seen now recently in Illustrious with foreign harriers simply because there were not enough british harriers to fly on 1 single small carrier, if you are happy with this ok..
1) I count 12, 7 Trafalgar, 1 Swiftsure, 4 Vanguard (they arent attack subs, but they are still subs).
2)The RN has larger numbers of Large Amphibious ships and Carriers.
RN:
2+1 Carriers
9 Destroyers (3 in extended readiness + 1 on Sea Trials)
17 Frigates
1 LPH
2 LPD
4LSD
16 MCM
4 Patrol Ships
5 Survey Ships
1 Ice Breaker
18 Patrol Boats
8 SSN
4 SSBN

Spanish Navy
1 Carrier
4 Destroyers (F-100 class)
6 Frigates
1 LHD
2 LPD
2 LST
5 Patrol Ship
31 Patrol Boat
7 MCM
2 Ice Breakers
7 Survey
4 SSK

Difference
+2 Carriers
+5 Destroyers
+11 Frigates
+1 LPH
-1 LHD
+- 0 LPD
+4 LSD
-2 LST
+9 MCM
-1 Patrol Ship
+-0 Survey Ship
-1 Ice Breaker
-11 Patrol Boats
+8 SSN
+4 SSBN
-4 SSK

Amphib numbers may be out as i'm not sure about how close JCI is to commissioning and whether the two LST's are in suervice. Either way, the RN has way more high end combatants then the Spanish Armada and this trend will continue for the foreseeable future.

3)
There are 3 (2 full squadrons +2 half squadrons) of Harriers active in the RN, this is enough to fill both active carriers up if needed. In addition there are also several dozen harrier GR7/9's in storage as attrition replacements that could be activated to bring up the numbers in case of a conflict where reserves are called up. Similarly, there will be enough F35B's to fill the RN carriers up, though it would mean there would not be enough for other taskings.
 

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
1) I count 12, 7 Trafalgar, 1 Swiftsure, 4 Vanguard (they arent attack subs, but they are still subs).
2)The RN has larger numbers of Large Amphibious ships and Carriers.
RN:
2+1 Carriers
9 Destroyers (3 in extended readiness + 1 on Sea Trials)
17 Frigates
1 LPH
2 LPD
4LSD
16 MCM
4 Patrol Ships
5 Survey Ships
1 Ice Breaker
18 Patrol Boats
8 SSN
4 SSBN

Spanish Navy
1 Carrier
4 Destroyers (F-100 class)
6 Frigates
1 LHD
2 LPD
2 LST
5 Patrol Ship
31 Patrol Boat
7 MCM
2 Ice Breakers
7 Survey
4 SSK

Difference
+2 Carriers
+5 Destroyers
+11 Frigates
+1 LPH
-1 LHD
+- 0 LPD
+4 LSD
-2 LST
+9 MCM
-1 Patrol Ship
+-0 Survey Ship
-1 Ice Breaker
-11 Patrol Boats
+8 SSN
+4 SSBN
-4 SSK

Amphib numbers may be out as i'm not sure about how close JCI is to commissioning and whether the two LST's are in suervice. Either way, the RN has way more high end combatants then the Spanish Armada and this trend will continue for the foreseeable future.

3)
There are 3 (2 full squadrons +2 half squadrons) of Harriers active in the RN, this is enough to fill both active carriers up if needed. In addition there are also several dozen harrier GR7/9's in storage as attrition replacements that could be activated to bring up the numbers in case of a conflict where reserves are called up. Similarly, there will be enough F35B's to fill the RN carriers up, though it would mean there would not be enough for other taskings.
and sea harrier in storage :)
There will be issues with F35B numbers until we singed the dotted line on the number's ordered but the USA[the PDF on the orders of the partner nations] seem to believe 138 will be ordered witch be far in excesses of the carriers capacity i.e 50 on each carrier plus 38 as reserve and training

woo Oceans back from refit
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...er30mRefit.htm
Ocean back at sea after £30m refit

The Royal Navy helicopter carrier HMS Ocean sailed from her home base at Plymouth to start sea trials today, Wednesday 24 September 2008, following a major period of maintenance and upgrading work.

HMS Ocean, one of the most powerful and flexible ships in the fleet, has successfully completed a complex 12-month upgrade and maintenance programme worth more than £30 million and undertaken by Babcock Marine at HM Naval Base Devonport Royal Dockyard.

The next few weeks will see HMS Ocean carry out intense sea trials that will test not only mechanical sustainability, but also the people; many new crew members having joined the ship since the project started. The ship's Commanding Officer, Captain Simon Kings MBE, said:

"I am immensely proud to be taking the Royal Navy's s largest warship back to sea after such a long period of maintenance and look forward to the challenge of regenerating her operational role as the Royal Navy's high readiness amphibious assault ship. Getting back to sea has been the result of much hard work by both Babcock Marine and the ship's company working together to deliver HMS Ocean."

A tried and tested programme of exercises will focus initially on sea safety and then gradually build up to equipment calibration and then flying operations with embarked helicopters before operational sea training begins in earnest in November 2008.

The ship started the second docking period of her life in September 2007 and is now undergoing sea trials before returning officially to the Royal Navy's fleet as an operational warship in October 2008.

This latest upgrade focused on improving accommodation and further equipping her for her worldwide role, and has involved a number of 'firsts', and some significant challenges.

Captain Martin Pendle, of SFM Devonport, said:

"The achievement of reaching the 'ready for sea' date and now sailing for sea trials represent the key milestone in HMS Ocean's docking period. It marks the effective completion of a £35m and year-long project that has seen HMS Ocean receive a major work package across almost every aspect of the vessel.

"Joint working between the MOD and Babcock Marine has been a particular feature in delivering this project, and that teamwork has been especially effective. All involved in this project are to be congratulated."

Work undertaken has included extensive improvements in crew accommodation including fitting toilets and bathrooms, provision of mess-decks in Royal Marines' or soldiers' accommodation, storage for their equipment and an entirely refurbished and reconfigured galley (dining area) and improved food storage areas; and equipping the ship with advanced communications facilities and a better weapon defence system, as well as an upgrade to the ship's aviation support facilities to improve support to helicopter operations including the Apache attack helicopter.

The old paint had to be removed entirely underwater and a new, more environmentally-friendly ultra-sleek system applied - the first on a capital (major) warship. A new waste disposal system has been installed involving a pyrolysis system - the first use of the technology on a Royal Naval ship. New sections of the main propulsion shafts have been fitted and improvements made to systems such as high pressure salt water, fresh water, drains and sewage.

Substantial savings of some £2.5 million were achieved through planning for optimum cost-efficiency, by the project partners; the Joint Project Team, Superintendent Fleet Maintenance (SFM) Devonport, Babcock Marine, the Royal Navy's Fleet, and the equipment team.
 

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Although it's a bit slow with news about the RN at the moment, there's a NATO Naval exercise going on, off the West Coast of the UK.

The French Helicopter carrier Tonnere, the RN LPD HMS Bulwark, one of the carrier's, the LSD(A) Mounts Bay, HMS Argyll, HMS Penzance & the Type 42 Destroyer, HMS Manchester, to name but a few.

It also happens to take place with the Final visit to the River Clyde by the QE2, during it's round the UK visit, prior to it's pay off to become a floating hotel in Dubai.

There are some pictures here...

http://www.inverclydenow.com/news-detail2.asp?ID=1435


SA
 
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