The Indonesian Army
- Thread starter DavidDCM
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Another forum said this includes the FSV variant with the 105 (even the video said Pandur 8x8 FSV), I thought it was rumored to be discontinued?
I hope this one has a lot of interest from user, especially the marines as they really need standardization and modernization.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Yes, that's why it's still rumours. No confirmation from TNI-AD whether they are still interest with 105 8×8. However so far the initial order not included. Still we don't know whether the licensing agreement included this type, or it's only based model licensing and Pindad open to build their own version.
Post 2 of 2: The TNI becoming a modern army for the 2030s & beyond
4. If you look at what is happening in Ukraine:
(a) wheeled mobility is needed to (i) run from the king of battle (artillery) and (ii) avoid encirclement by the enemy; and
(b) forces can move long distances to fight. US and UK are supplying Ukraine with MANPADS, like FIM-92 Stinger missile and a ton of anti-tank weapons, like the FGM-148 Javelin, to attrit Russian forces.
Like Ukraine, Taiwan has invested in 8x8s, anti-tank missiles to keep moving in the event of a PLA invasion.
3. A 105mm armed medium tank is far better than a 105mm armed 8x8; as TNI-AD’s 8x8 are better off carrying infantry, armed with anti-tank weapons to hide in restricted terrain against a capable enemy. By way of reference, the SAF’s Terrex equipped battalions (that are for mobile battles over a long distance), have:
(a) retired it’s 84mm RR and replaced them with Spike SR (with a range of 1.8km) as a company level anti-tank support weapon (for A, B & C companies); and
(b) adopted the Spike LR (with a range of 5km), which is used by the ATGM platoon of Support Company. This is anti-tank weapon of choice in the infantry battalion.
4. If you look at what is happening in Ukraine:
(a) wheeled mobility is needed to (i) run from the king of battle (artillery) and (ii) avoid encirclement by the enemy; and
(b) forces can move long distances to fight. US and UK are supplying Ukraine with MANPADS, like FIM-92 Stinger missile and a ton of anti-tank weapons, like the FGM-148 Javelin, to attrit Russian forces.
Like Ukraine, Taiwan has invested in 8x8s, anti-tank missiles to keep moving in the event of a PLA invasion.
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Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Some years ago there was an MoU signed between Kongsberg and Pindad. The rumor was that Pindad would licence produce the M153 Protector RCWS for its armoured vehicles like the Anoa.
www.indomiliter.com
Whats the status of the plan/program? Is it canceled or are the Protectors later directly delivered from Norway?
Kongsberg M153 Protector: RCWS Multi Kaliber dengan Integrasi Rudal Anti Tank Javelin
Setelah melewati serangkaian uji pada beberapa RCWS (Remote Control Weapon System), akhirnya BUMN Strategis PT Pindad telah mengikat kerjasama dengan Kongsberg, manufaktur pertahanan dari Norwegia dalam rencana implementasi produksi RCWS di Indonesia. Baca juga: FN DeFNder Medium – Opsi RCWS...
www.indomiliter.com
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Pindad doing test on part of Factory Acceptance Test with their Medium Tank JV with Turkey FMSS. The test already been done with the latest Prototype model, where the frontal slope already been modified.
So far it's seems TNI-AD only want to use big gun on medium tank platform. No other test being done with other platform so far.
Pindad already build their own facilities for automated weapon platform. Those including turrets and RCWS.
However they're engaging several potential partners for RCWS. So there's no official information whether their MOU partnership with Kongsberg will turn into full licensing agreement. Like with Pandur II, the MOU already happened several years ago, but licensing agreement only happens recently.
It's officially production model now if it's at a FAT stage. Is this the first unit completed out of the 18 unit of the first batch?
I heard the Army leadership is not to keen on these tanks, why though I have no idea. I hope that they stick with this tank, it's a decent product for what it's design for. It might be slightly more expensive but it's the price for some expansion of domestic manufacturing capabilities. With this, Pindad planned to take a lot of projects. Apart from being the nation small arms manufacturer, they are making Anoa APC, Komodo Utility vehicle, the planned Pandur 2 (If this doesn't replace the Anoa line), and Kaplan MT. Do they have the ability to cope with it without a hit in production output and/or quality?
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
I believe this's still the prototype. However seems this's going to be closer to production model.
Too much speculations from on line sources now. There are speculations and rumours of:
1. Some says the army want more MBT,
2. Some says the army tend to have more IFV,
3. Some says the army want bigger gun,
4. Some says the army already satisfied enough.
Too much speculations, but we will now for more if there's production line already within Pindad. When that happens, it's going to be committed line. The production # will increase proportionately, as we already see happen to other line.
What I'm more concerned of is the the production line capacity. Pindad industrial complex is not that big. If we compared to production line of Japanese or Korean car makers in Indonesia alone, Pindad Automative facilities still like a small workshop compared to them. Even with Mercedes Benz facilities in Wanaherang or BMW ones in North Jakarta (which's much smaller compared to Toyota or Daihatsu facilities), Pindad facilities can't be say bigger then those European car makers ones.
Pindad can't invest on bigger facilities without more capital from Government. They can't justify that also if they still depend on Government order. For that like other SOE defense industry, they can only work on batches as happens now.
Some Indonesian defense enthusiasts talk on small order of #18 as prove that the Army has not really buy in on Medium Tank concept. For me, I see it more as Pindad capabilities only can work on batches of production between several lines they are planning.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Pindad FB shown more photos on the Factory Acceptance Test on the 105mm Medium Tank. As whether the turret can be equipped for bigger gun, cockerill practically talk in their sites, the turret being design for both 105mm and 120mm.
CMI Defence and Doosan DST Present a New 120/105mm Medium Tank Concept - John Cockerill
Demand for Medium Tanks is increasing. At IDEX 2013 CMI Defence and Doosan DST present a new 120/105mm Medium Tank concept. The system integrates the Cockerill XC-8 turret and the Doosan K21 IFV chassis. With a system weight of some 25 tonnes, the concept offers advanced 120mm or 105mm...
johncockerill.com
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It might not be preferable to change the gun to 120 mm. Other than adding weight, it may also reduce the ammo capacity compare to 105 mm, and that's assuming the hull can take the extra weight. For all we know, they never intended to put 120 mm in there, and thus they didn't design the hull with upgrade in mind.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Well, the Polish put 120mm Cockerill on 8x8, which is lighter then this Medium Tank. I do believe the design still can handle 120mm Cokerill gun.
Still PINDAD and FMSS place 105mm more to TNI-AD preference. Cockerill just shown their turret designed for both 105 and 120 mm.
In the end, it will be back to TNI-AD preference and operational environment concept for this Medium Tank.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
The last of nine ordered Bell 412EPI is delivered to Penerbad of the Indonesian Army. From which i understand these helicopters are not built under licence but arrived completely built up from the US (by ship?).
No news about IPTN's other projects like the N219 or Elang Hitam.
No news about IPTN's other projects like the N219 or Elang Hitam.
Update: Indonesian Army receives last Bell 412 EPI helicopter
State-owned aircraft manufacturer PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) has delivered the last Bell 412EPI multirole medium helicopters on order for the Indonesian Army...
www.janes.com
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
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From Keris FB which shown latest short video from Pindad on latest Prototype iteration for their JV Medium Tank with FNSS. On previous post I put link from Cockerill site on the capabilities of their turret to handle both of their 105mm and 120mm gun.
Quite interesting that 105mm being choose on this medium tank being 'rumours' related to Pindad large caliber production so far up to 105mm. However latest MoU with French Nexter also on 120mm gun ammo production.
Is this only for Leo2 or later on they also going to put 120mm on this Medium Tank, will be interesting to see.
It's the new army camo they showed during the recent RAPIM, what do you think?
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Personally i prefer the standard TNI-camouflage. Its proven to be effective. Hopefully the new camouflage pattern is created because its even better, not because "we didn't have our own pattern" (pure ego).
Jenderal Dudung perkenalkan seragam baru bermotif loreng TNI AD
Kepala Staf TNI Angkatan Darat (Kasad) Jenderal TNI Dudung Abdurachman memperkenalkan seragam baru TNI AD yang menggunakan motif khas Angkatan Darat yang ...
m.antaranews.com
(Warning: too many popping up advertisements here below)
Pakai Seragam Baru dengan Loreng NKRI, KSAD Dudung: Karena Angkatan Darat Belum Punya Loreng
"Ya, ini seragam baru, seragam baru sebetulnya dulu diciptakan oleh pak Andika Perkasa waktu (masih) KSAD ya."
www.suara.com
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Ananda
The Bunker Group
New Camo is better then old fashion jungle camo that they have before. Question will be if this is going to be implemented throughout rank soon or not.
Finding new set up uniform already long way process for TNI-AD.
This TNI-AD SAKTI uniform that being put forward during SBY era. However politics play in this matter, even on choosing uniform.
Finding new set up uniform already long way process for TNI-AD.
This TNI-AD SAKTI uniform that being put forward during SBY era. However politics play in this matter, even on choosing uniform.
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I thought it was adopted exclusively by KOSTRAD currently, wasn't it?
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Kostrad already used different uniforms pattern then SAKTI. Problem is SAKTI was brainchild of SBY son, Agus Yudhoyono (AHY). That's why I say Politics play the part even to uniform choosing.
The new uniform (call NKRI uniform), is brain child of Andika Perkasa (current TNI Chief), when he was still TNI-AD chief. So potentially still got political momentum to be implemented as standard.
Add:
Both photo come from Google sources.
ChestnutTree
Active Member
I don't really hate the new pattern, I think the Multicam base design is superior to a lot of patterns. But I think this weird fascination of putting however many patches you can fit onto a uniform really needs to go. Half of those uniforms is more patch than camouflage at this point.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Well, those patches are in Brass uniforms. I suspect the average line officers and soldiers will not having many patches. Think of it, they put patches is still better then putting a lot off medal decorations.
I have a high school friend which now already one star in TNI-AD. Once I talk to him (during high school reunion), why you guys like to bring that 'command' stick. He says to me, personally I don't like it. However many of the seniors still insist on that tradition. He says it is an old tradition originated from KNIL times.
The idea to put many medal decorations also originated from KNIL times, and seems hard to left behind within officers corps. So if they change from medals to patches, at least in my opinion is already step forward.
Anyway forgot to put it here, this already few days old on Pindad FB pages.
Seems they already put it the prototype on different camo configuration. It is more fitting for tropical jungle environment.
I have a high school friend which now already one star in TNI-AD. Once I talk to him (during high school reunion), why you guys like to bring that 'command' stick. He says to me, personally I don't like it. However many of the seniors still insist on that tradition. He says it is an old tradition originated from KNIL times.
The idea to put many medal decorations also originated from KNIL times, and seems hard to left behind within officers corps. So if they change from medals to patches, at least in my opinion is already step forward.
Anyway forgot to put it here, this already few days old on Pindad FB pages.
Seems they already put it the prototype on different camo configuration. It is more fitting for tropical jungle environment.