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South Korean Navy

Discussion in 'Navy & Maritime' started by fylr71, Jul 1, 2006.

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  1. Musashi_kenshin

    Musashi_kenshin Member

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    You fool, you can't prove a negative! You alleged it, so you come up with the evidence.

    Why would they? Just because you wouldn't vote for someone like that doesn't mean they would punish him just on that.

    That is bull and you know it. For one thing, many people do not vote. For another not everyone votes for the government. Even then as I said there are many issues at the ballot box. I have never heard of a situation where someone has been voted out simply because he went to a shrine (or similar). If you are so sure support for Koizumi/Abe was/is based on glorifying the war/war criminals you should be able to find a Japanese newspaper article saying something along those lines.
     
  2. Schumacher

    Schumacher New Member

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    Exactly, many Japanese genuinely sees nothing wrong with visiting the shrine so don't bother to vote to have their say against it.

    '......Because of worsening relations between Japan and other Asian countries, opposition politicians and even some leading members of Koizumi's governing coalition have said they fear the prime minister is unnecessarily rekindling animosities to appease nationalistic supporters. Public opinion polls in Japan indicate an almost even split between approval and disapproval of his visits to the shrine.....'

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/17/AR2005101701417.html

    Koizumi's action was to appease nationalistic supporters, ie vote buying. And most worrying, a full 50% of public surveyed supported the visits.
     
  3. Musashi_kenshin

    Musashi_kenshin Member

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    How does any of that prove Japan is a "war criminal nation"? A lot of people don't see anything wrong in going to Yasukuni because they are just praying for the dead soliders.
     
  4. Transient

    Transient New Member

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    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0XPQ/is_2001_August_27/ai_78570472

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0XPQ/is_2001_June_4/ai_75331666

    Some simpletons believe that people base their votes simply on one policy. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Schumacher

    Schumacher New Member

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    Make up your mind fast. Are you arguing there're nothing wrong with Abe's recent comments and Koizumi's shrine visits or are you saying they're wrong but the Japanese population don't support it ?
     
  6. Musashi_kenshin

    Musashi_kenshin Member

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    You are twisting what I said. I was talking about going to Yasukuni. It is possible for people to go there and believe Japan committed war crimes. Others did not support his visits. I said nothing of the sort about Abe's comments.

    Take a look at Transient's article - nowhere does it say support for Koizumi's governments was down to his Yasukuni visits.

    As I have said before, why is Japan a "war criminal nation"? I have kept asking this question yet you refuse to provide some real evidence for it, other than that not enough people vote against politicians in elections on the basis that Chinese and Koreans get upset!
     
  7. Schumacher

    Schumacher New Member

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    Check again, I didn't use "war criminal nation". What I say is Koizumi's visit & Abe's comments have significant support among the population which I say is a cause for worry.
    And no, not because of China or SK being upset but the genuine absence of any sense of wrong with the actions of their leaders.
     
  8. Musashi_kenshin

    Musashi_kenshin Member

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    You have not provided any evidence as to how much support Abe's comments have. As to Koizumi's visit, why is that a cause for concern? As I said many people don't see Yasukuni as you see it.

    Which does not mean they think what Japan did in the past was ok. There's a lot of irritation at the regular criticism from countries like China and South Korea - President Roh uses it to boost his flagging popularity. On Yasukuni some people supported the visits because they saw it as standing up to people meddling in their affairs.
     
  9. Schumacher

    Schumacher New Member

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    And go check again. I said we'll have to see if the voters will punish or reward him in the next poll. But the fact that Abe thinks such comments are worth a try to salvage his political fortune shows he knows there's significant support out there.

    Not wrong here. And it's equally possible many of the supporters do think the war was ok.
     
  10. Musashi_kenshin

    Musashi_kenshin Member

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    You are still carrying on with this ridiculous position. It is simply not credible to take a position that whether or not people support his comments will be shown by how many votes he gets - especially given he back-peddled somewhat by saying he stood by the 1993 apology.

    If you allege that, I can also allege the fact Abe said he still supported the 1993 apology shows he knows there's significiant support out there to make such comments.

    In reality politicians often say what they believe without a desire to gain votes from them.

    How can you say it's "worrying" if you have no idea what the proportion is?
     
  11. Schumacher

    Schumacher New Member

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    Not ridiculous at all. If at the poll, he still bring up these comments as a major part of the campaign & he wins big. I think we can safely make conclusions from there.
    Yes, he backtracked which is a combination of foreign and internal pressure. That's reassuring but would have been so much better had there been no such issue in the first place.
    I think you're naive about politicians. If they risk controversy to do something, more likely than not they expect reward from it, ie votes or almost as worrying, Abe personally believed what he said.
    Why 'worrying' ? Even if the majority of the supporters did so just to spite China & SK, it shows many Japanese are getting angry & perhaps starting to see themselves as victim. I think this is 'worrying'.
    Germany, in contrast, does not show such signs.
     
  12. eckherl

    eckherl Defense Professional Verified Defense Pro

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    Thank you for the information.

    To everyone else - we are getting way off topic here.
     
  13. Musashi_kenshin

    Musashi_kenshin Member

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    What if he doesn't bring the comments up as a major part of the campaign? It didn't play a major part of the 2005 election - that was all about postal reform.

    How do you know he didn't backtrack because there was opposition to his comments in Japan?

    A Conservative politician in the UK was fired because of comments he made recently about black soldiers claiming racism so they could bunk off - there was absolutely no indication he was doing it for votes. In fact he kept saying he wasn't a racist, so that would rather show he didn't mean to come across that way. He said he made the comments because he thought they were important, even if he had phrased them badly.

    So politicians often do make mistakes when they say things, and/or say what they believe regardless of the outcome.

    If some people kept shouting at you "apologise" and you feel you have apologised/there has been an apology already, wouldn't you be angry? Wouldn't you feel victimised?

    Japanese people of today haven't done anything wrong. You can't say that just because people in the 1940s committed war crimes it means they have to sit there quietly and take all the abuse that anyone can see - you just have to look at many Chinese and Korean forums and websites (that's just online).

    It isn't to spite China or South Korea, it's because they think that to change what is happening just to please them is wrong. I frequently hear comments from Chinese that comments made by foreigners about the need to do things like reform the political system are counter-productive and that these things will be solved by Chinese alone. So why can't Chinese understand many Japanese may have the same attitude?

    Germany isn't being constantly screamed at to apologise for the war. If countries like China and South Korea stop saying "you're not sorry - apologise now" so frequently, Japan would be more flexible.

    But going on and on about it just makes it more difficult. Does China respond positively to regular complaints from the US et al about its human rights? No - so why should Japan respond positively to regular complaints about the war and related issues?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2007
  14. WebMaster

    WebMaster Administrator Staff Member

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    Get back on the topic!!!!


    SOUTH KOREAN NAVY
     
  15. Dae JoYoung

    Dae JoYoung New Member

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    S. Korea Lunches Aegis Destroyer "King Sejong the Great"

    Back on Topic:

    On Friday, May 25th, 2007, the Republic of South Korea reached a major milestone in its military and defense progress.

    The first Korean Destroyer Experimental III vessel (KDX-3) was launched on that date. The new vessel, named the Sejong the Great, DDG 991, is a full AEGIS capable vessel employing the same AN/SPY-1D system as the US Navy Areligh Burke class destroyers, and also utilizing the same AN/SQQ-89 submarine warfare suite.

    But the vessels are also much more heavily armed than their American counterparts, with an 80 cell VLS grouping forward dedicated to SM-2 missiles, and a 48 cell VLS grouping aft carrying 32 land attack cruise missiles and 16 ASROC anti-submarine missiles. In addition, the vessel carries 16 anti-shipping missiles very similar to harpoon missiles, a rolling air frame (RAM) missile launcher with 21 short range anti-missile and anti-air missiles, and a 30mm Goalkeeper CIWS for more close in protection. Finally, the vessel carries 32 light weight topredoes and carries two anti-submarine helicopters in its hangars.

    These vessels, when upgraded with TBM capabilities will allow the South Korean government to protect their interests and people against attack by rogue states, and help maitain the balance of power in the Western Pacific. The South Koreans have firm plans to build two more of these vessels, with a potential for three more, which would total six vessels in all.

    Pictures of the launch and the dignitaries attending follow (click on each pic for a larger pciture)

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1840792/posts#comment?q=1
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99035
    ----------------------------------------

    Even outclassing it's American counterpart, this becomes the latest and the most deadliest of all Aegis system destroyers in the world today. It's literally a DeathStar.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
  16. chakos

    chakos New Member

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    It makes me wonder why the S.Koreans dont just come out and call a spade a spade and a cruiser a cruiser. I mean this monster has a full load displacement of over 10000 Tonnes, carries 165 various missiles, 32 torpedoes, 2 helicopters as well as various guns. It would, one for one, wipe anything afloat short of a Kirov and yet they persist in calling it a destroyer.. or do they honestly think they would annoy the Chinese or the Japanese any less if they called it a destroyer when it is obviously a cruiser for all to see?

    Any thoughts..
    ?
     
  17. Dae JoYoung

    Dae JoYoung New Member

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    Koreans have a sense of humor. :p:

    This DeathStar has two "Goalkeepers" in action:

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=103097

    --------------------------------------------

    S. Korea to license German Technology:


    The Type 214 is a diesel-electric submarine developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW). It is based on features of the Type 212, but as the export version of the more advanced Type 212 submarine it lacks the non-magnetic hull (to avoid detection) and other classified technologies. Also Type 214 is more similar to the very successful Type 209 submarine, while Type 212 was an independent project of the German Navy with significant changes to Type 209.

    Contract to build three boats for Hellenic Navy was signed 15 February 2000 and a fourth one was ordered in June 2002. The first boat was built at HDW in Kiel, Germany and the rest at the Hellenic Shipyards Co. in Skaramangas, Greece. The Hellenic Navy calls the Papanikolis class.

    South Korea has ordered three Type 214 boats, to be built in Korea by Hyundai Heavy Industries, which will enter service from 2009.[1] ROK Navy calls the Son Won-il class.

    Links:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_214_submarine
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Attack_Submarine_program
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
  18. contedicavour

    contedicavour New Member

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    This superb new KDX-3 DDG class is a perfect asset to counter north Korean missile launches. It is thus IMO very urgent to ensure the SM-2s have ATBM capability. Besides, it would ensure that nobody understands this new DDG is for arms races with Japan and that it really is an amazing defensive asset.

    cheers
     
  19. daewon

    daewon New Member

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    eh... SK has declared that it will have no part in the MD programs.
    Thus while Japanese Atago classes will have SM-3 for ballistice missle
    interception, SK has not ordered them.

    I think we're more worried about losing favor with the Chinese.
    They'll go nuts if SK were to obtain anti ballistic capabilities. We
    don't quite need that now. Were SK to participate in the MD programs
    its defence acquisitions will be met with much discontent from China
    and others. That could prove to be ruinous as we don't really want to
    get into an endless arms race, mainly cuz we could never out arm our
    neighbours.

    As for the Japanese, while there are certainly animosity towards
    each other it is definitely short of aggression. As I said before coop
    between ROK/Jap is increasing and besides they're both capitalist
    economies with interest in keeping peace with each other.
    Japan is more than capable of defending anything Korea can throw
    at them. So wouldn't be worried just now.
     
  20. contedicavour

    contedicavour New Member

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    Interesting. Still I'd say that since the most likely source of aggression against the ROK is NK missiles, ATBM capabilities are vital. May be the aegis aboard the KDX could be installed in its latest versions with ATBM capability and SM3 brought aboard only in case of imminent war. The USN would certainly help out and provide the missiles in that case.

    cheers