South Korea launches Amphibious Tank XK2

blue_shark

New Member
Funny. They make it sound as if a tank-snorkel would be something new.
I never heard any of the other tanks with that feature/ability being called a "underwater tank", hehe.

The quoted articles sound as if the Koreans would be aiming at the export market, but i doubt whether they will ever sell many of those tanks. The market is flooded with much cheaper russian and european tanks and there seems to be a trend of former potential customers like India, Pakistan or Turkey developing their own national tanks, so the market is shrinking.
Look at the japanese Type-90 tank. As far as i know it was developed together with the people who developed the Leopard 2 (which is easy to see), but it's more advanced (auto loader) and expensive and so they never sold any of them to customers outside Japan while the cheaper Leo 2 is the best selling non-russian tank in the world.
I wager that when the time has come for all the armies that recently bought variants of the T-80, T-90, Leo 2 or M1 to replace them, there will already be more advanced alternatives to the XK2. Besides the fact that more and more countries which could afford a expensive high tech tank, will develop their own one, so the international market for tanks will shift even more towards demand for cheap tanks that can be afforded by developing countries, i guess.

Besides, i thought the south korean M1K1 is relatively new (for a tank design which usually stays relatively "fresh" for 3 decades). Why did they need a new one already?
well, Type 90 couldn't be exported because the law says so. and It was too expensive!

I heard Turkey is interested in XK2 tank. They already bought(licensed) 300 sets of our K9 SPH and they satisfied with performances of her.

It's rather expensive, about 8 million USD now but the price may go down if the mass production starts and get export orders.

by the way, RoK Army has 1027 K1 tanks and 484 K1A1 tanks will be produced until 2010. 680 K2 tanks will be produced starting 2011.
 
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blue_shark

New Member
It is just a main battle tank capable of crossing streams which is a major issue in South Korea. It is funny I keep hearing of a roll out date of 2011 and from what I am hearing they havent even decided to accept it as of yet. The tank does use alot of influence of other tank designs that are out there.
The K1A1 has been around for quite awhile now, and you are right, what is the mad dash to get it replaced, the threat is just not there looking at what North Korea or China has at the present moment and this is what is being taken into account with the experimental XK2. Please do not get me wrong, this is not a biased opinion in-regards to South Korea and I am avid supporter of their capabilities in designing new weapons platforms and if they roll out the XK2 I will be cheering them on.
ah, we've met again! I'm level in tank-net.org.
and I have a BIG question. what specific weapons platforms are you helping us? because I never heard any foreign assistans for XK2 tank. enlighten me please
 

blue_shark

New Member
Big shell pocket ain't it?

I too do not understand the rush to roll out a new design when the K1A1 is more than sufficient to counter anything operated by N.Korea. It's not about obtaining the most advanced piece of equipment, but rather one that suits you.
our potential enemy is China. K1(not K1A1) is fully enough to counter N. Korean scrap tanks you know that...
 

blue_shark

New Member
Yes, that was my point. When i hear "amphibious tank" i think of something like the AAVP and not a normal MBT with a snorkel like almost all MBTs use it since a long time.

Is the suspension system really that useful? After all the old STRV-103 had that already (http://baike.baidu.com/pic/52/1159520749627313.jpg) and noone ever considered it worth copying in any tank design that came afterwards... till now or till the Type-90 if that one has this feature too.

Maybe to some extend tank designers that are operating within a tradition going back to WW2 shy away from "going too advanced" because everybody still has it in the back of the head how the rather simple but tough russian tanks in the end proved to be better than the more advanced but problem haunted german tanks. Best example are the overlaping wheels of the Tiger 1. They were a good idea on the drawing board because they provided a very stable platform for the gun, but they froze together in winter and because a lot of mudd virtually glued them together, the engine had to work much harder than it would have had to with normal wheels, which was a big problem for the already underpowered machine and increased the probability of overheating besides increasing the fuel consumption unnessesarily.
Especially the development of the Leopard 1, which in some way was the first one of that new generation of MBTs (you know, the first one that was definitely rather designed to be a agile predator than a rolling fortification) was especially influenced by WW2 experiences and memories. The premise was to achieve a maximum performance and reliability combined with a minimum of maintenance and a optimized "in-field-repairability" (fast exchangeable engine aso.). I think the big success of the Leopard 2 comes mainly from sticking with this principles (for example by using the reliable, traditional multi-fuel diesel engine instead of a more complicated gas turbine).
They didn't just develop a high tech tank out of the blue like the French did for example, but deliberately avoided the mistakes the german engineers in WW2 made and only then thought about how new technologies could be combined with that experiences.

I think that "better go simple and reliable"-attitude is one of the reasons why the Leo, the Abrams and the Challenger still got no automatic loader.

What i want to say with all this is that i could imagine "western" tank designers might shy away from using such fancy suspension systems because it feels a bit like one of those ideas that look good on paper but tend to cause problems in practise.
Of course it doesn't have to be unreliable, but usually you can assume that the more complicated a system is, the more liable it is to malfunctions, the more maintance it needs and the harder it is to repair. A advanced and complicated hydraulic system would certainly suffer more mobility kills from mines, if confronted with such, than the oldfashioned suspension systems that are used in most MBTs today, i wager.

@ rrrtx:
Are the restrictions that hard that they can't sell anything? Germany has pretty harsh restrictions too and still sells tanks and ships to certain customers.

I don't buy that. K1/A1 uses similiar hydraulic system and there was no problems. new hydraulic system for XK2 tank have been tested for long time.

take a look at S. Korean terrains. there are mountains all over the country so our tanks should fire from higher grounds towards much lower fields...
 

blue_shark

New Member
Yes it is the same gun that is placed on the LEO2A6, they also are testing with the standard L44 gun. Also it does have a auto loader thus reducing the crew to three man.
It's funny hear it from you. :eek:nfloorl: 120/55 gun in XK2 PV is indigenous one. WIA produce it.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
ah, we've met again! I'm level in tank-net.org.
and I have a BIG question. what specific weapons platforms are you helping us? because I never heard any foreign assistans for XK2 tank. enlighten me please
So you are still under the notion that all of the technology on the XK2 is strictly South Korean design? Also are you not still using the same gun as the
K1A1 uses, I`ll bet that you are, matter of fact I know that you are and it is German designed.
 

Falstaff

New Member
Yes, it uses the M256, which is a licensed built Rheinmetall 120/L44 :)

If we can't do anything we can still build proper tank guns...
 

blue_shark

New Member
So you are still under the notion that all of the technology on the XK2 is strictly South Korean design? Also are you not still using the same gun as the
K1A1 uses, I`ll bet that you are, matter of fact I know that you are and it is German designed.
I don't buy you. ADD officially announced XK2 is using indigenous 120/55 gun. and I saw some pics of testing indigenous 120/55 gun.

It's not German designed. We also had indigenous 155/52 gun for K9 SPH and WIA produce it, too!
 

blue_shark

New Member
Yes, it uses the M256, which is a licensed built Rheinmetall 120/L44 :)

If we can't do anything we can still build proper tank guns...
K1A1 uses M256 not XK2. XK2 uses indigenous 120/55 gun.


testing pic(captured from video) of indigenous 120/55 gun

photo by muraki52 from bemil.chosun.com
 

Falstaff

New Member
Indigenously built doesn't mean it was designed indigenously. Just check it and you'll see.
And don't be so mad about it, the Rheinmetall 120mm/L55 is the most powerful tank gun in the world, so it isn't something bad the K-2 uses it.

K1A1 uses M256 not XK2. XK2 uses indigenous 120/55 gun.
Please read eckherl's and my postings more carefully.
 

blue_shark

New Member
Indigenously built doesn't mean it was designed indigenously. Just check it and you'll see.
And don't be so mad about it, the Rheinmetall 120mm/L55 is the most powerful tank gun in the world, so it isn't something bad the K-2 uses it.



Please read eckherl's and my postings more carefully.
LOL, you ever heard Rheinmetall has transfered their technology to us or helped designing our 120/55 gun?

why do you think like that? Rheinmetall wanted to sell their guns or at least license of it. and they have any reason to help us develping our own 120/55 gun.

and what shoud I check?

PS.
you also think our K9 SPH are using Rheinmetall 155/52 gun? ;)
 

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
Blue shark, welcome and thanks for the pictures.

The image code would only work in the pictures and media forum here... or you can upload them to the South Korean sectin in the gallery? ;)

Thanks and enjoy!
 

TrangleC

New Member
I don't buy that. K1/A1 uses similiar hydraulic system and there was no problems. new hydraulic system for XK2 tank have been tested for long time.

take a look at S. Korean terrains. there are mountains all over the country so our tanks should fire from higher grounds towards much lower fields...
I didn't say it has to be less reliable. I just say the more complicated a system is, the more problems it can cause - usually, not neccessarily.

And regarding the terrain: The swiss are using tanks with "oldfashioned" suspensions too and i never heard that was a problem.

I'm not saying it is a bad thing. I was just pointing out the pattern i noticed in "western" tank designs to rather go simple if possible and where this philosophy comes from.
The fancy new adjustable suspension just reminded me of compareable fancy ideas the german tank designers had in WW2 and how the extremely simple and tough russian designs proved to be better.
That is all.
 

Falstaff

New Member
Listen, nobody said it's a bad tank or something. And there is nothing bad about using license built guns. The K2 has a license built power pack as well. There's no reason for you to go ballistic. If you want to convince paople, stay factual.
 

blue_shark

New Member
I didn't say it has to be less reliable. I just say the more complicated a system is, the more problems it can cause - usually, not neccessarily.

And regarding the terrain: The swiss are using tanks with "oldfashioned" suspensions too and i never heard that was a problem.

I'm not saying it is a bad thing. I was just pointing out the pattern i noticed in "western" tank designs to rather go simple if possible and where this philosophy comes from.
The fancy new adjustable suspension just reminded me of compareable fancy ideas the german tank designers had in WW2 and how the extremely simple and tough russian designs proved to be better.
That is all.
I got it. I believe ADD or Agency for Defense Development scientists also considered that and I presume they work it out to have reliable new hydralic system.
 

blue_shark

New Member
Listen, nobody said it's a bad tank or something. And there is nothing bad about using license built guns. The K2 has a license built power pack as well. There's no reason for you to go ballistic. If you want to convince paople, stay factual.
The truth is XK2 do not use licensed gun. I already provided pic of our own gun in testing. and ADD developer of XK2 tank officially announced XK2 are using indigenous gun. and what's your proof that XK2 are using licensed gun?

yes, XK2 "PV" are using German power pack, at least now. but mass production version will use indigenous 1500hp engine, transmission, powertrain etc. I also posted these CGs...
 
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