Serbian leader 'shocked' by video

mysterious

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Serbian leader 'shocked' by video

Serbian President Boris Tadic has appeared on TV to express deep shock over a gruesome video showing Serbian soldiers executing Bosnian Muslims.

He said he was ready to visit the town of Srebrenica in July for the 10th anniversary of the massacre in which 8,000 Muslim men and boys were killed.


Mr Tadic was speaking hours after the arrest of at least eight paramilitary troops allegedly shown in the video.

The footage is evidence in the trial of ex-Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic.

"Serbia is deeply shocked," Mr Tadic said in his television address.

"Those images are proof of a monstrous crime committed against persons of a different religion, and the guilty had walked as free men until now."

The amateur footage, showing six civilians with their hands tied behind their backs being lined up and shot, was brought to light by a Serbian human rights organisation.

It was shown at Mr Milosevic's trial in The Hague on Wednesday and later aired by TV stations in Serbia and Montenegro.

Promise on fugitives

Mr Tadic said the crimes at Srebrenica had been carried out "in the name of our nation", but added that crimes were always individual and the perpetrators needed to be punished.

United Nations chief war crimes prosecutor Carla del Ponte, who was in Belgrade, called the arrests a "brilliant operation".

During her visit, the president of Serbia and Montenegro, Svetozar Marovic, vowed that Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic and former commander Ratko Mladic would be delivered to the war crimes tribunal in The Hague.
"The Mladic case will be finally successfully concluded within a month so that this heavy load is taken off our backs," Mr Marovic said.

Mladic and Karadzic are the most wanted men in connection with the massacre in Srebrenica. They are believed to be hiding in Serbia and Montenegro or the Bosnian Serb republic.

Disbelief

The video that prompted Thursday's arrests begins with a Serbian Orthodox priest blessing paramilitaries before they go into battle. It ends with what appears to be the same paramilitaries shooting badly beaten civilians prisoners in the back with machine guns.

The killers are wearing the uniforms of a unit known as the Scorpions, which prosecutors say fell under the command of the Serbian interior ministry.

The BBC's Matt Prodger in Belgrade says it is a truly chilling video, and marks the first time that the Serbian media has presented the public with such graphic and direct evidence of the Srebrenica massacre.

Nonetheless, only one newspaper carried the story of the video on its front page on Thursday.

A survey last week suggested that only half the Serbian population believe the Srebrenica massacre actually took place.

The same survey suggested that two-thirds of the public believe Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic are heroes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4605223.stm

Huh? Whats up with the Serbian population? They from mars for taking Karadzic and Mladic for heroes?!??! :confused: These war criminals should be brought to justic once and for all. It is amazing how nothing has come out with reference to this massacre all these years until now! :coffee
 

gf0012-aust

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mysterious said:
Huh? Whats up with the Serbian population? They from mars for taking Karadzic and Mladic for heroes?!??! :confused: These war criminals should be brought to justic once and for all. It is amazing how nothing has come out with reference to this massacre all these years until now! :coffee
Myst, the Serb/Bosnian/Croation/Kosovar/Albanian problem has been around for over a thousand years and was "revitalised" 700 years ago.

It is unfortunately a never ending story.
 

mysterious

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Yes I know that. Its almost like the issue of who has claim over Jerusalem. But the amazing thing is how gullible people are (just proved by this example of taking Karadzic and Mladic as heroes). I guess there must be a great lack of education that is causing this lack of understading on their part for the war crimes that those two committed.
 

Sparapet

New Member
Actually Mysterious, one of the reasons why they are concidered heroes by Serbs is because the the Bosnians weren't all innocent either. Loss of civilian life is always unfortunate, however the coverage of the recent Balkan wars has been less that fair. All sides were victims, and all sides were perpetrators. Albanians kill Serbs, Serbs reply in kind. Western media goes nuts and blames the Evil Serbs.
 

mysterious

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Please dont try to come here and justify massacres! Its like somebody trying to defend Saddam Hussein (given his record of massacring thousands of Shias and Kurds)! There are rules of war and how you go about carrying out actions based on those rules, judges where u stand.

"Collateral Damage", a term used frequently in recent times to describe loss of civilian life and assets is only applicable when the victims get caught up in enemy fire directed towards hostile (armed) forces. It does not, however, include unarmed people (some as young as 12) being tied up, blindfolded, then shot in the back (cold blooded).

Today your defending such people who committed crimes against humanity, what next? You're going to say that the cold-blooded beheadings in Iraq of people by militants were fair and just?? That charges be dropped against Saddam or for that matter against Karadzic and Mladic?
 

Sparapet

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Dear Mysterious,

Please go back and read my post a little more carefully. I am not excusing the Serbs, however the point that I am trying to make is that the attention has been unfairly focused on the Serbs, and not so much on the other perpetrators of mass murders. Serbs were forced to leave their homes in Croatian and Bosnian territories, and the process involved numerous murders of civilians.

I constantly monitor news sources from all over the world, and I can tell you that the coverage in the west is heavily tilted against the Serbs. So I am not excusing them, but I want to point out that there are just as many Bosnian (not Bosnian Serb), Albanian and Croat war criminals as there are Serbs.

P.S. I never called the victims collateral damage. I am well aware of the difference.
 

mysterious

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May well be so but until you can provide hard evidence against those you accuse, it wont amount to much. On the other hand, its about time Karadzic and Mladic faced justice for their inhuman acts.
 

Sparapet

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mysterious said:
May well be so but until you can provide hard evidence against those you accuse, it wont amount to much. On the other hand, its about time Karadzic and Mladic faced justice for their inhuman acts.
Mysterious,
Would you count this as hard evidence?

Concentration Camps for Serbs


The Most Notorious Camps in B&H

The following list is limited to only the most notorious concentration camps in Bosnia & Hercegovina where Serb civilians and prisoners of war were subjected to the most heinous forms of war crimes by Muslim and Croat perpetrators. The numbers below reflect the situation during 1992 and 1993. Many of the camps continued to operate during 1994 and 1995 and into 1996.

Location Facility No. Prisoners Livno Old Town 950 Tomislavgrad school 500 Tomislavgrad Rascani village 1,000 Bugojno Serb home 50 Bugojno factory S. Rodic 700 Jajce fortress 500 Bihac football stadium 900 Orasje football stadium 100 Odzak* school 400 Odzak* "Stolit" factory 150 Odzak* Novi Grad village 1,000+ Odzak* Poljari village school 59 Odzak* Rabici mil. depot 300 Konjic Bradina tunnel 3,000 Hadzici Pazaric cult. center 150 Hrasnica "A. Santic" school 160 Pazaric warehouse 140 Mostar District Gaol 300 Gorazde Vitkovici village 380 Gorazde Sasici village 100 Capljina Dretelj village 400 Tarcin Wheat silo 600 Novi Travnik "Bratstvo" fact. shaft 100 Ilidza "Famos" stadium 800 Tuzla "Tusanj" stadium 4,000 Bosanski Brod suburb400 Zenica town prison 2,000 Jablanica Celebici villagge 500 Kladanj Stupari village 50 Sarajevo "V. Nazor" school 200 Sarajevo Central Prison 600 Sarajevo "Kosevo" stadium unknown Sarajevo Skyscraper #2 " Sarajevo "Zetra" sports center " Sarajevo Railway station " Sarajevo "Mladen Stojanovic" " Sarajevo "May 25" Nursery " Sarajevo "Sipad" warehous " Sarajevo "Pofalici" reformatory " Sarajevo "Viktor Bubanj" 250 Sarajevo bank vault 170 Sarajevo Zetra Camp 1,500 Sarajevo R. Togliati Street 580 Konjic New housing 1,500 Konjic Donje Selo village 500 Konjic Buturovic Polje 200 Zenica Prison Pavilion #5 300 Ljubuski Prison 80 Grude garage complex 30 Bugojno "Rostovo" ski resort 150 Bugojno High School 200 Bugojno Mine "Gracanica" 200

Notes to List of Most Notorious Camps Holding Serbs

All of the camps mentioned above were facilities where unimaginable cruelty prevailed. Noted below are just some of the more unique characterastics of some of the facilities. Of extreme significance is the data showing that a large number of the most notorious camps were located in Sarajevo. The murdered victims of these facilities were thrown into some of at least 36 mass graves of Serb corpses located in the city of Sarajevo.
  1. Two capms in the Odzak Municipality, one in the Novi Grad Village, and the other in "Famos" football stadium were camps holding manily women and children, where the victims were subjected to the most heinous crimes.
  2. In the Stupari Village camp in the Kladanj Municipality the policy which was implemented was that each day the guards took out one inmate and hung them.
  3. The imprisoned in the Railway Station in Sarajevo were women.
  4. In the "Viktor Bubanj" facility in Sarajevo many were murdered and otherwise abused. It had the distinction of being staffed with 20 mujahadeen guards (foreign Muslims).
  5. In the Bank Vault facility in Sarajevo of the "Privredna Banka Sarajevo" the treatment of the imprisoned was such that the Croatian guards working there called it the "torture house for Serbs".
  6. In the facility Skyscraper #2, in Sarajevo mass murders of those imprisoned there were carried out over the River Miljacka; one night alone 27 Serbs were murdered.
  7. In the Zetra Camp facility in Sarajevo 300 inmates are known to have been murdered. It is especially noteworthy that the commander of the camp was Safet Isovic who was an Assembly Member of the Government of Bosnia & Hercegovina.
  8. In the Dretelj Village facility in municipality of Capljina the personnel who carried out the abuses included mercenaries from Italy, Germany, France, England and US.

Brothels and Rape Centers Holding Serbian Women

(formed by the Muslim and Croatian Forces)

The data below was obtained from interviews with female victims imprisoned in the above centers by Professor Dr. Biljana Plavsic and the State Documentation Centre for the Investigation of War Crimes of the Serb Republic of Bosnia-- Herzegovina. It reflects approximations of detainees as retold by the rape victims. These 16 brothels/rape centers held approximately 800 Serb women who were imprisoned and sexually abused by the members of the Moslem TD of B&H and the Croatian Army. A full report of the testimonies by these vicitims is available in a United Nations document A/47/813 S/24991 dated December 18, 1992. Other similar places existed and data continues to be collected from former victims raped there.

Brothel/Rape Facility No. of Rape Victims Held Sarajevo: " Zagreb Hotel" basement. 40-50 Sarajevo: "Bjelave" student hostel 30 Sarajevo: "Zetra" sports center 30 Sarajevo: "Borsalino" cafe 10 Sarajevo: "Djordjevic" (former) company brick kiln 30 Sarajevo: Faculty of Civil Engineering; the mnager of the brothel was Mirza Delibasic, the famous international basket-ball player 30 Urduk: village near Pazaric in the Municipality of Hadzici 10 Tarcin: elementary school building in the municipality of Hadzijci 50 Tuzla: S econdary school premises 100 Tuzla: Student hostel 200 Tuzla: Private house on the road to Srebrenik near Previle 15 Bugojno: "Rostovo" ski center 30 Bugojno: House belonging to the murdered Serb Reljo Lukic 15 Konjic: Village of Buturovic Polje 50 Konjic: "Amadeus" cafe in town center 20 Bihac: Restaurant belonging to Mustafa Vukovic who is also the manager of a brothel containing 30

THE SILO CAMP IN TARCIN

Tarcin is located on the road Sarajevo-Konjic-Mostar, which connects Bosnia with Hercegovina. Tarcin is in the municipality of Hadzici, suburb of Sarajevo. Before the war, the city had an elementary shcool, city hall, post office and an ore factory. In the vicinity of Tarcin was the recreation center for tuberculosis patients.

At the beginning of 1992 the Muslim authorities formed their reserve militia and assumed full power in the area of Tarcin and Pazaric, an adjoining town. At the outbreak of the civil war, in April 1992 the Muslims forces launched their first military actions. At this time any movement of the civilian population was prohibited and the Muslims established a camp in a wheat silo in Tarcin and a camp in Krupa-Pazarici. They took in the male civilian population, the youngest being 17 years of age and the oldest 70 plus. Until late June 1992 approximately 800 men and several women were held captive in these two camps. Some 30 old and disabled men were the only ones in the area who were not imprisoned. The women that were left behind in their houses were exposed to various forms of physical and psychological maltreatment.

At the beginning of the formation of the silo camp in Tarcin, approximately 600 Serbs were held prisoner in 15 prison cells. Each cell was 10x5 meters with 5 meters in height and without a roof. During rainy days and storms a plastic sheet was spread over the opening. Because more than 40 persons were in each cell they could sleep only on their sides or take turns to lay down. For the first few months prisoners slept on the bare concrete without any blankets. Only much later, after the Red Cross was finally allowed to visit in November 26, 1992 did they receive blankets and wooden planks on which to sleep. Guards did now allow prisoners to go out of the cells so they were forced to urinate and defacate into plastic cans too small for the number of people in the cell. For six months inmates were allowed to bed only two times and they could not change or wash their clothes. They had one meal a day at 5 p.m., usually a squash soup with few crumbs of bread. A 600 gram loaf of bread was divided between 12 or more prisoners. By the witnesses' testimonies even such portions were not regular, sometimes they did not receive any food for periods of 2-3 days. A liter of water given every 24 hours was shared by 5 prisoners. Due to this kind of nourishment and hard physical labor many inmates lost 30-40 kilograms in the first few months. Prisoners were exposed to regular torture and beatings, rapes and hunger. Many died as a result of the abuse.

Prisoners in the camp were forced to do hard labor. Guards themselves beat the prisoners daily and organized mass beatings forcing prisoners to beat fellow prisoners. As an example, on June 4, 1992 camp warden Becir Hujic ordered guards to open the prison cells and while armed soldiers were posted outside the prison cells, 15-20 men and one woman Jasmina entered the cells and proceeded to beat the prisoners with metal and wooden sticks and fists. The beatings lasted from noon to 2 p.m. Afterwards, many prisoners lost consciousness and were left lying on the concrete floor in pools of their own blood. After a while, the prison warden ordered prisoners to hand over all valuables they still possessed, gold watches etc. which were collected by masked soldiers. The soldiers stayed at the silo through June where they tortured prisoners daily led by thier commander "Zuko" . The imprisoned Serbs lived in the silo camp in Tarcin in the worst conditions never having been officially charged or sentenced. The Muslim authorities released the last of the remaining prisoners in January 1996, only because the US Government finally applied pressure for them to do so.

THE VILLAGE OF BRADINA

Bradina is a village in the municipality of Konjic. It is also the birthplace of Dr. Ante Pavelic, leader of the Nazi Independent State of Croatia, which included Bosnia-Hercegovina in Hitler's Europe. Continuing attacks by the Moslem-Croat coalition in May 1992 forced 500-600 Serb refugees from Konjic, Mostar, Bijelo Polje, Jasenjan, Ostrozac, Dobrigosca, Pozetve, Nevizraka and Sarajevo to flee to Bradina. During the first half of May approximately another 1000 people, men, women and children, entire families fled to Bradina from Ljuta, Zlatar, Brdjani and from the burned villges of Blace and Dzepi. On May 12 Bradina wihtstood an attack, but another took place on May 25, with fatal consequenes for the entire population. Upon attacking the village, the Muslim/Croat forces burnt all Serbian homes forcing the population that survived the fire to leave. Literally whole families were annihilated, including children and old men. Captured younger men were shot on May 26, their corpses left exposed for two days. The Muslim/Croat coalition forced Serb prisoners to load the bodies onto vehicles and move them to the grounds of the Serbian Orthodox church in Bradina where they were buried in a mass grave which was so shallow that parts of their bodies protruded from it.

THE MUSALA CAMP IN KONJIC

Konjic is located in the Central valley of Neretva River on the road to Hercegovina and the Adriatic Coast. Before the war Konjic was the cultural center of North Hercegovina. Tourism was developed, as Konjic has two lakes in the vicinity as well as the Ljuta River. There was a furniture factory in Konjic. Every year a competition of metal workers of Yugoslavia was held in Konjic. According to the 1991 census for the population of Konjic, Serbs made up 18.54 % but formed the majority in the following adjoining villages: Bjelovcina, Place, Borci, Bradina, Cerici, Cicovo, Dolovi, Donje Selo, Dubrevice, Jezero, Pula, Sitnik and Zagorica. In other neighboring settlements Serbs were in the minority.

Even though the sparse Serbian population did not present a threat to the majority Muslim and Croat population in the Konjic municipality, the Muslim and Croat authorities began to carry out total ethnic cleansing of the Serbian population from their districts starting at the very beginning of the war. Starting April 18, the survival of the Serbian population was threatened with the arrival of Croatian forces from Split to Konjic. By April 20, 1992 the Serb population was fleeing en masse to neighboring villages. For days the Serbs tried unsuccessfully to negotiate with the Muslim/Croat coalition who demanded their expulsion. Those who refused to leave paid with their lives. By May 15, 1992 mass military attacks were mounted on the undefended villages where Serbs had fled. May 15th the village of Blace was attacked and almost the total Serbian population murdered. On May 21st the villages of Bjelovcina, Cerici and Donje Selo were attacked. Donje Selo was later turned into a camp for women and children. During the initial period the women were kept in a shool house where they were tortured, raped and beaten daily. All female captives, including women in their seventies were included in this treatment.

During the second half of May 1992 the sports hall, Musala, in Konjic was transformed into a prison camp in which many Serbs from the Konjic municipality were imprisoned. The first prisoners in Musala, as far as it can be established, were Serbs arrested in Donje Selo. They were taken to the camp on May 22, 1992. Before the existence of this camp was revealed to the International Committee for the Red Cross, the Croatian and Muslim captors murdered camp inmates in the most horrifying manner. They murdered 13 people on June 15, 1992 in a part of the camp they blasted with artillery shells from an immediate vicinity.

The systematic rape of the imprisoned Serbian women in Musala was carried out before they were deported to a village prison camp of Donji Selo.

The Musala camp in Konjic was operated until October 6, 1994 when the last Serb prisoners were released after spending over two years there never having received any charges or sentences and without knowing why they had been imprisoned.

THE VILLAGE OF DONJE SELO

Donje Selo is a Serbian village about 7 km. from Konjic. It was transformed by the Croatian/Muslim authorities on June 22, 1992 into a village prison camp to which Serbs who were captured in the municipality of Konjic were deported. Those Serbs deported there as well as those who had lived in the village earlier but who had not been murdered or taken to the camps in Celebici or Konjic were forbidden to leave the village. A strong guard unit was set around the village.

Not only was the movement of the Serbs limited to Donje Selo but they were also subjected to the worst forms of maltreatment in the village itself. Those who suffered the most were women and children. Women were beaten, raped, tortured and starved regularly.

A certain number of Serbs, especially the men were freed from imprisonment in Donje Selo either by payment of a ransom or in freelance exchanges. However, the position of those imprisoned in the village prison camp, deteriorated drastically during the fiercest battles between Muslim and Croat struggle for power and territory in the Konjic municipality.

THE CAMP IN CELEBICI

Before the war Celebici was a village where the Yugoslav National Army, YNA, had a military base. Immediately upon the outbreak of war, Croation/Muslim authorities occupied the military installations. Several days later, they issued an order to all Serbs in Celebici on April 22, 1992 commanding them to leave their homes and villages within two hours. Those who did not obey the order and did not move out were later arrested and sent to a Croatian-run camp in Grude.

In the ethnically cleansed village of Celebici where Muslims had already begun to move into former Serbian homes, a large concentration camp for Serbs was set up at the beginning of May, 1992. The camp was located in the former storage depot of the YNA and was encircled with barbed wire and mine fields. The first camp inmates were taken to this camp after Croatian Muslim formations attacked the Serbian villages in the Konjic municipality. Each village was attacked one by one and the inhabitants were either murdered or arrested.

The captured civilians from various places were taken to the camp of Celebici, also notorious for crimes against Serbs in World War II. Prisoners were shut in a tunnel known as #9 and from there transferred to a metal hangar #6 and the military arsenal called #22. There they were exposed to horrible torture and shut into concrete manholes in which they spent many hours without enough air and many died. There was no food, no water and no sanitation. Women, subjected to "special treatment" were also incarcerated in this camp. The commander of the camp of Celebici was Zdravko Mucic called "Pavo", arrested in Vienna March 1996 and indicted March 21. His deputy in Celebici was Hazim Delic also indicted March 21st. Celebici camp was dismantled at the end of December of 1992 and the inmates, exhausted from hunger and beatings were deported to Konjic to the camp Musala.
Also Mysterious, I think you will find the following sites useful as well:
http://www.balkanpeace.org/hed/archive/dec04/hed6835.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2277589.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2985633.stm
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9703/10/bosnian.crimes.update/
http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/tri/tri_374_2_eng.txt
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1481613.stm

Do you really need more "evidence" ?
 

Alektas

New Member
It was a war, a modern one. In all wars since WW2, honour and chevalry is forgotten. Often its the "take no prisoners" principle. Everybody did it, USA, Russia, Muslims, Croatia, Albanians,... Here we are seing one country paying heavy penalties for something that everyone else has been doing. The most cynical thing is that the judging is done in the name of morality by the perpetrators of the exact same act elsewhere in the world.
 

mysterious

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Arrghhh, I hate this. I wrote a nice juicy reply and my system froze and I lost it all.

Anywayz, the point I was trying to make in my ill-fated post, Sparapet, was that I did not ask for evidence about who did what (that is already known) but evidence that, according to you, Serbs are being subjected to unfair and extensive scrutiny as opposed to nothing being done against the Muslims and Croats.

The links that you provided, themselves, have made your arguement collapse as they clearly show how extensive the scrutiny of Muslims and Croats have been for their crimes against Serbs. Atleast more Muslims, if not Croats, have already faced the tribunals and received sentences as opposed to Serbs. End of story! :coffee

P.S. I never said that Muslims and Croats didn't do anything in the first place, so I'm at a loss for translation as to what compelled you to copy, paste the stuff that you did and the links you provided.
 

mysterious

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And you are talking about extensive and unfair scrutiny of Serbs as opposed to Muslims and Croats on behalf of what exactly? All the links you provided are about two murders, five murders, the max. being an alleged hundred murders under Bobetko. Do you know what Mladic is wanted for? Let me freshen up your memory by this qoute from a BBC article,

"Gen Mladic is wanted on charges of genocide over the deaths of more than 7,000 Muslims at Srebrenica in 1995".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4077464.stm

No wonder he and his friend Karadzic have beaten all others to aclaim the spotlight!! Read further:

Karadzic and Mladic: The charges

Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic have both been charged and indicted by the United Nations war crimes tribunal at The Hague.

They face 16 counts of genocide, crimes against humanity and violation of the laws of war in Bosnia-Hercegovina between April 1992 and July 1995.

The indictment says Mr Karadzic, a former Bosnian Serb leader, and Mr Mladic, who was a chief of the Bosnian Serb army, are responsible for persecution of Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian Croat civilians on national, political and religious grounds.
The tribunal says Mr Karadzic's and Mr Mladic's squads killed thousands of Muslims at Srebrenica in 1995 "in order to kill, terrorise and demoralise the Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian Croat population".

It says Mr Karadzic and Mr Mladic are responsible for the unlawful confinement, murder, rape and inhumane treatment of the civilian population in Bosnia-Hercegovina.

It lists detention facilities, such as Omarska, Keraterm and Luka, where Bosnian Muslims and Croats were detained and says the camp commanders were accountable to Mr Karadzic and Mr Mladic.

In many instances, women and girls were repeatedly raped.

Food rations and medical care in the prisons were inadequate.

Mr Karadzic and Mr Mladic are accused of shelling Sarajevo and of using 284 UN peacekeepers as human shields in May and June 1995.

Both men are charged with the unlawful appropriation and destruction of property and places of worship.

The tribunal also accuses Mr Karadzic and Mr Mladic of committing grave breaches and violations of the laws or customs of war.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1766806.stm

Not to get carried away or anything, this post of mine is solely in response to your post with the 'hard evidence'.
 

mysterious

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Serbs' hero worship sours
A recent Serbian survey suggested only half the population believed the 1995 Srebrenica massacre by Serb forces of more than 7,500 Muslim men and boys had happened.

A further two-thirds in the survey released last month believed those most wanted in connection - Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic and his military counterpart, Ratko Mladic - were innocent men.

And a majority believed that Serbs were the greatest victims of the Balkan wars of the 1990s.

Less than a week later those convictions were shaken with the broadcast on Serbian television and across the former Yugoslavia of a gruesome video.

They showed members of a Serbian police unit executing Bosnian Muslims from Srebrenica.

The tape was shot by a member of the police unit - the Scorpions - and came into the possession of Natasa Kandic, a human rights activist and longtime bete noire of Serbian nationalists.

She passed it to the Hague war crimes tribunal, and prosecutors in Serbia itself.

By the time she had given it to local broadcasters, the arrest of several former members of the Scorpions was already under way.

'Victims'

Reaction from political leaders was swift, spurred on by a visit to Belgrade by UN Chief War Crimes Prosecutor Carla Del Ponte. She has consistently berated the Serbian authorities for their failure to arrest Gen Mladic or Mr Karadzic.

Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica described the pictures as "shocking and terrible".

President Boris Tadic said he would attend the 10th anniversary of the Srebrenica massacre on 11 July to "bow before the innocent victims".

The president of the union of Serbia and Montenegro, Svetozar Marovic, expressed confidence that Gen Mladic would be arrested within weeks.

Liljana Smajlovic, a journalist working for the Belgrade political weekly Nin, said the video challenged the way many Serbs see themselves.

"Serbs think of themselves as the victims, the people standing meekly in line in 1941 waiting for the Ustase (Croatian fascists) to kill them during World War II," she said.

"And here is a video showing exactly the same thing happening to Muslims at the hands of Serbs."

The reaction was not quite so uniform on the streets of Belgrade.

One woman told the BBC she had felt ashamed to be a Serb when she saw the killings on TV.

"Those stories the Western media told were true after all," she said.

Others needed more convincing - one man said the killers could only be mercenaries working for Western agencies like the CIA.

This is a country where you can buy lapel badges depicting Mr Karadzic and Gen Mladic in shops run by the Serbian Orthodox Church.

Penalties

However, the first few months of 2005 the Serbian authorities surrendered more than a dozen war crimes accused.

The Serbian media carried rumours of Gen Mladic being sheltered at a military base on the outskirts of Belgrade.

Government ministers became more outspoken in their criticism of shadowy elements in the security services that they accused of sheltering suspects.

Despite the support for Mr Karadzic and Gen Mladic expressed by many Serbs, the heavy price for it had long been wearing them down.

The average monthly wage is less than $300. The country's failure to fulfil completely its obligations to the Hague war crimes tribunal are in part to blame for the economic stagnation.

The US has twice frozen aid to the country. Serbia and Montenegro's accession to Nato's Partnership for Peace programme is explicitly dependent on it handing over Gen Mladic. The EU has made it clear that the country has no chance of joining as long as he remains on the run.

Serbs bemoan the fact that neighbouring countries which used to lag behind Yugoslavia - such as Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary - are now ahead of them.

And one of the former Yugoslav republics, Slovenia, is already a fully-fledged EU member.

This means the love affair with The Hague's two most wanted has been strained. "If Mladic were arrested tomorrow, there would be a huge outpouring of national outrage - from a handful of people," joked one Serbian journalist.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4078234.stm

I'm glad the Serbian people have proved me wrong by distancing themselves from these mass murderers! Its about time these two are put to justice so that Serbia and Montenegro can move towards the path of prosperity and success in these challenging times.
 

mysterious

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Mladic 'will soon be in custody'

Washington will resume aid to Serbia amid hopes that war crimes suspect Ratko Mladic will soon be in custody, a US State Department official has said.

Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns said the former Bosnian Serb military chief's days in freedom were numbered.

Gen Mladic is wanted on charges of genocide over the deaths of more than 7,000 Muslims at Srebrenica in 1995.

The US froze economic aid to Serbia because of its apparent failure to co-operate with The Hague tribunal.

"My strong impression from my discussions here in Belgrade is that the [Serbian] government is working very seriously to find General Mladic and there will be a sincere attempt to capture him or to have him voluntarily surrender and to send him to the Hague," Mr Burns told reporters.

"We are confident that his days in relative freedom are numbered."

He said Washington would now release $10m (£5.4m) in aid.

The Serbian government has denied a press report that it has been negotiating to secure Gen Mladic's surrender within 10 days.

Tribute

Belgrade has come under increased pressure from the international community to capture Gen Mladic and wartime Bosnian Serb political leader Radovan Karadzic.

The public screening last week of a video apparently showing the execution of Muslim civilians at the hands of Serbian paramilitaries in 1995 shocked many Serbs.

UN chief war crimes prosecutor Carla del Ponte has said her office had more video evidence on the massacre of Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica.

Ms del Ponte said she needed "Karadzic and Mladic in The Hague before 11 July" as a way of paying tribute to those who lost fathers, sons and husbands in the massacre.
Serbia and Montenegro have surrendered more than a dozen war crimes suspects in the past six months.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4077464.stm

Just goes to show when you're willing to follow the right path, others would be more than willing to lend you a helping hand!
 

Sparapet

New Member
I hope the last three posts were your lost "juicy reply". I have had that happen to me and it sucks.
However, you still missed my point. When you responded to my post, you must no have read it carefully: at Camp Zetra more than 300 inmates were murdered. The Bosnians had brothels where up to 200 (in one brothel) Serb girls were forced to be prostitutes.

And a majority believed that Serbs were the greatest victims of the Balkan wars of the 1990s.
Here is an article that shows the same sentiment among Kosovo Albanians.
http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/bcr3/bcr3_200311_468_1_eng.txt

Here is an OSCE report showing "that defendants of Serb ethnicity are disadvantaged at all stages of judicial proceedings compared to Croats."
http://www.db.idpproject.org/Sites/IdpProjectDb/idpSurvey.nsf/wViewCountries/01DB784A630702D4C1256E93005264D0

And another article dealing with the same thing:
http://hrw.org/wr2k4/16.htm#_Toc58744965
(Croatian General Ante Gotovina even has his own website http://www.antegotovina.com/default.aspx?LID=1 and here is his indictment - http://www.un.org/icty/indictment/english/got-ii010608e.htm)

Long story short, I dont care if the number of victims was in the thousands or hundreds. Ethnic cleansing and genocide are simply wrong, and I do want to see all those responsible pay for their crimes. As lond as it is ALL who are responsible. Raping women is wrong, be they Bosnian, Croat or Serb, and those who rape should have their genitals removed (without anastesia). But again ALL who did it must pay.

I hope I have made my feelings and views on the subject quite clear.
 

mysterious

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Comparing numbers was never my intention; I was simply trying to make you aware of the one of the reasons why Serbs, Mladic and Karadzic specifically, attract more spotlight. And as far as 'ALL must pay' theory goes, of course that should be but it doesn't mean that until ALL are put to justice, you cant put the few that you've managed to put your hands at to justice!

I read your last post well and understood it well and to repeat what I said, ALL have received fair scrutiny for their deeds and not just one faction.

No, those weren't part of my 'juicy' reply. Those are just few things I came across after losing my reply to computer malfunction.
 

Sparapet

New Member
Hey, I'm ok with it as long at it doesn't stop with them. Get the bastards one by one, just get them all.

P.S. Sorry for the one-liner - I know they are frowned upon.
 
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