Sea trials, LHD (JCI)

[Vanguard]

Was inevitable, I would not be surprised if a few of their Oliver Hazard Perry’s follow in coming years ahead of their scheduled replacement – especially as that is a design that can be sold off quite well even if just for spare parts for Poland or Turkey. Compared to the American units they would have a much longer lifespan in them considering their workload.

 

[t68]

Your right, It looks like due to Spain's economic issues, they forcing the Spanish Navy to decommission the Principe de Asturias carrier and replacing it with the Juan Carlos I. I wonder if the Juan Carlos I can take over the Principe de Asturias carrier roles and missions.

Juan Carlos I (L61) can do all of the thing Príncipe de Asturias (R-11) can plus more, but she cannot do them all at the same time efficiently, just like a Wasp class she cannot do sea control and amphibious assault at the same time its one or the other. But a Wasp has the capacity when working together as Expeditionary Strike Group her fast jet capability grows with each Marine air-ground task force (MAGTF) added to the task force. If it came to that type of engagement I suspect a CBG would not be far away to assist an Expeditionary Strike Group.

Its one of the main reasons why when the RAN will have in commission Nuship Canberra (LHD 01) and Adelaide (LHD 02) there will be no fast jet fixed wing aircraft onboard it is trade off of what other capability will be left behind.Dont forget JC1/Canberra class has a displacement of 27000T full load and a Wasp class 45000T full load which make a difference on the amount of on board supplies one holds (fuel munitions food water)

 

[Zhaow]

Juan Carlos I (L61) can do all of the thing Príncipe de Asturias (R-11) can plus more, but she cannot do them all at the same time efficiently, just like a Wasp class she cannot do sea control and amphibious assault at the same time its one or the other. But a Wasp has the capacity when working together as Expeditionary Strike Group her fast jet capability grows with each Marine air-ground task force (MAGTF) added to the task force. If it came to that type of engagement I suspect a CBG would not be far away to assist an Expeditionary Strike Group.

Its one of the main reasons why when the RAN will have in commission Nuship Canberra (LHD 01) and Adelaide (LHD 02) there will be no fast jet fixed wing aircraft onboard it is trade off of what other capability will be left behind.Dont forget JC1/Canberra class has a displacement of 27000T full load and a Wasp class 45000T full load which make a difference on the amount of on board supplies one holds (fuel munitions food water)

Do the Australians have the ability to run a MAGTF or MEU(SOC) type unit. They would have to do an Army makeover to make the units MEU(SOC) capable. I wonder what kind of air units the Australian are going to run off the Juan Carlos I. Are they gona have a mix of ASW/ASUW, Ground attack and troop transport helicopters or they are gona have a mix of helicopters and JSF.

I wonder how many countries in the future will buy a Juan Carlos I type ship and run a MEU(SOC) type unit with pure helicopters for ASW/ASUW, Ground attack and troop transport.

 

[Cadredave]

Do the Australians have the ability to run a MAGTF or MEU(SOC) type unit. They would have to do an Army makeover to make the units MEU(SOC) capable.

They are in the process now of realigning some Army units all details are in the Australian Army thread.

I wonder what kind of air units the Australian are going to run off the Juan Carlos I. Are they gona have a mix of ASW/ASUW, Ground attack and troop transport helicopters or they are gona have a mix of helicopters and JSF.

Zhaow you have been told numerous times that the RAN is not purchasing F35B and yet you persist on asking the same questions about this aircraft on HMAS Canberra, Spain yes Australia NONE, NIL, ZERO.

I wonder how many countries in the future will buy a Juan Carlos I type ship and run a MEU(SOC) type unit with pure helicopters for ASW/ASUW, Ground attack and troop transport.

Your question should be really how many countries require a Juan Carlos I/MEU(SOC) type capable ship, and how many are truly blue water capable or you end up like Thailand Navy with a very expensive white elephant / Royal yacth and yes I know its not a LHD same end result will occur.

 

[STURM]

Only if Thailand can buy more helicopters for the HTMS Chakri Naruebet to support their Royal Thai Marines. HTMS Chakri Naruebet would be a perfect platform for the Royal Thai marines to launch Helicopter amphibious assault operations. The Royal Thai Navy would just have to buy more ASW/ASUW Helicopters and more transport helicopters for their Royal Thai marines.

It's not a question of just buying new gear. The main problem the RTN has is that it just can't afford to run the Chakri Naruebet. The Chakri Naruebet spends a lot of time at sea not because she lacks a proper air wing but simply due toa lack of funds!

I wonder how many countries in the future will buy a Juan Carlos I type ship and run a MEU(SOC) type unit with pure helicopters for ASW/ASUW, Ground attack and troop transport.

Assuming they actually have a requirement for what you propose, how many navies, apart from major NATO navies, can afford to run and mantain a ship the size of the Juan Carlos?

 

[t68]

Do the Australians have the ability to run a MAGTF or MEU(SOC) type unit. They would have to do an Army makeover to make the units MEU(SOC) capable. I wonder what kind of air units the Australian are going to run off the Juan Carlos I. Are they gona have a mix of ASW/ASUW, Ground attack and troop transport helicopters or they are gona have a mix of helicopters and JSF.

I wonder how many countries in the future will buy a Juan Carlos I type ship and run a MEU(SOC) type unit with pure helicopters for ASW/ASUW, Ground attack and troop transport.

You cannot compare a USMC MEU to its Australian counterpart. Firstly in Australia case we don’t have a Marine Corps, so when an Australian LHD deploys it will be a tri service initiative (Navy, Army, Air Force), secondly all the elements in a MEU are organic to the USMC and the doctrine will vary between both nations. A USMC MEU in its operational phase will forward deploy for up to 6 months at a time and will be self sufficient. In its role of forward deployment it may be task for operations such as HADR or quick direct action or holding actions for follow up by much larger forces (US Army).

Australia on the other hand can most certainly do HADR or a Quick direct action (low intensity operations) or support a much larger operation in a coalition environment; we won’t have ships forward deployed in readiness as we don’t have the capacity (2 ships). Australia will not have a set configuration on what deploys on the LHD pending the circumstance of each operation at the time, but in warlike operations an ACE should consist of Blackhawk/MRH 90, ARH Tiger and Chinook helicopters it might deploy additional ASW helicopter but those will most likely stay with the escorts on the ANZAC class or Hobart AWD.

Here is an overview on the RAN LHD program,
Canberra Class - Royal Australian Navy

 

[Zhaow]

They are in the process now of realigning some Army units all details are in the Australian Army thread.


Zhaow you have been told numerous times that the RAN is not purchasing F35B and yet you persist on asking the same questions about this aircraft on HMAS Canberra, Spain yes Australia NONE, NIL, ZERO.


Your question should be really how many countries require a Juan Carlos I/MEU(SOC) type capable ship, and how many are truly blue water capable or you end up like Thailand Navy with a very expensive white elephant / Royal yacth and yes I know its not a LHD same end result will occur.

I think like this, if the RTN can get it's act together, they can get a Juan Carlos I type ship to support their Royal Thai Marines. Though I predict that in the next 10 to 20 yrs, the RTN will wise up and get a Juan Carlos I type ship.

As for Australia, would they run a pure helicopter carrier with a mix of ASW/ASUW, attack and transport Helicopters.

 

[STURM]

I think like this, if the RTN can get it's act together, they can get a Juan Carlos I type ship to support their Royal Thai Marines.

Do you not understand that the RTN can't afford something the size of Juan Carlos? As it is its Matadors and Corsairs are not flying and the Chahkri Naurubet hardly leaves port. Also, given its operational requirements, the RTN does not need something the size of the Juan Carlos, and that is unlikely to change in the future. For its needs, something much smaller would be more practical. And that is precisely why it has ordered an Endurance class LPD from Singapore.........

There are probably a few navies that have an actual requirement for something like the Juan Carlos but the RTN is not one of them!

 

[Cadredave]

Really

I think like this, if the RTN can get it's act together, they can get a Juan Carlos I type ship to support their Royal Thai Marines. Though I predict that in the next 10 to 20 yrs, the RTN will wise up and get a Juan Carlos I type ship.

RTN current budget does not allow it to operate the ships it currently has now, Thailands needs are Land based not Sea based, The RTN can never afford a ship now or in the future like Juan Carlos I, Its current ship the Chahkri Naurubet is a expensive white elephant brought more for prestige than actual use there is no Strategic/tactical use by the RTN for an LHD the size of JCI.

As for Australia, would they run a pure helicopter carrier with a mix of ASW/ASUW, attack and transport Helicopters.

see this link:
Canberra Class - Royal Australian Navy
now judging by your track record your not going to read the link provided im not to fussed its your loss.

CD

 

[aussienscale]

see this link:
Canberra Class - Royal Australian Navy
now judging by your track record your not going to read the link provided im not to fussed its your loss.

CD

And if that's not enough here is 68 pages of every conceivable arguement for and against

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy-maritime/hypothetical-carrier-buy-ran-10410/

We are not trying to shut down your conversation, but this has been done to death for the last 3 years and comes back up again every couple of months, read the links, it will give you the answers as will the earlier pages of this thread

Here too is a link Ngati posted in the General NZDEF Thread, it has some good information on what you are asking as well

http://infodefensa.com/wp-content/uploads/JCI_en_v2.pdf

Cheers, happy reading

 

[Zhaow]

Do you not understand that the RTN can't afford something the size of Juan Carlos? As it is its Matadors and Corsairs are not flying and the Chahkri Naurubet hardly leaves port. Also, given its operational requirements, the RTN does not need something the size of the Juan Carlos, and that is unlikely to change in the future. For its needs, something much smaller would be more practical. And that is precisely why it has ordered an Endurance class LPD from Singapore.........

There are probably a few navies that have an actual requirement for something like the Juan Carlos but the RTN is not one of them!

What I meant was, a Juan Carlos I Type. That means anything that similar to a Juan Carlos I and not necessary a Juan Carlos I LHD. So in theory, if the RTN get it's act together they can in 10 to 20 yrs. They run a ship that is similar to a Juan Carlos I or a smaller version of the Juan Carlos I LHD.

 

[Zhaow]

Do you not understand that the RTN can't afford something the size of Juan Carlos? As it is its Matadors and Corsairs are not flying and the Chahkri Naurubet hardly leaves port. Also, given its operational requirements, the RTN does not need something the size of the Juan Carlos, and that is unlikely to change in the future. For its needs, something much smaller would be more practical. And that is precisely why it has ordered an Endurance class LPD from Singapore.........

There are probably a few navies that have an actual requirement for something like the Juan Carlos but the RTN is not one of them!

I can see RTN running a version of the Juan Carlos I. Maybe a smaller version of the Mistral class or the Endurance 160. That would some where in 20 to 40 yrs down the road.

As for Australia, will they center their Navy around the Juan Carlos I with the Hobart and ANZAC frigate or around the US Navy's ARG concept.