Problem is a Corvette doesn't generate that much saving in crew numbers (E.g. Mogami class FF usually quoted as 90 crew vs MMPV90 corvette with 70 crew) while significantly degrading weapons load, seakeeping and range.
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
- Start date
South Korea are one of the worlds top shipbuilding nations. As you say "Aotearoa" is an excellent example and prior to her "Endeavour". Once the design has been selected it rests with the design team on whether they will allow your selected shipyard to proceed with the build.
Accepted with a higher end version. Canada is looking at a deal for 20 corvettes at a build cost total of around 5 Billion dollars {US or Canadian).
to be called the Vigilant class. They are basic workhorses leaving the serious stuff to the river class now under construction. There are options that could be suitable for NZ without paying a premium price. Using a modular system gives more options. eg; A towed array Sonar system. A main armament comprising of a 5" or 3" main gun. 8 cell Mk41 VLS. 4 or 8 NSM may suffice. A crew of say 35 (-+} with up to 70 if required. Looking for a compromise between our OPV's and the high end Mogami. Suitable for convoy escort, EEZ and Pacific Island petrols. Provision for trainees needing sea experience.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
I agree there potentially could be an opportunity as (upgraded) replacements for the Protector-class OPV's. Like most navies the RNZN would prefer vessels with at least some "improved" capabilities (compared to what these OPV's currently have). There were mutterings about this back in the early 2000's (pre-internet discussions), which is hard to cite nowadays but Wiki gives us an idea of some of the RNZN's thoughts at the time.
Nowadays though (unlike back then), with various potential state actor threats and new technologies such as drone swarms to counter, there would surely be an identifiable need to move on from "like-for-like" in terms of an OPV replacement, which should be ditched for something better equipped to monitor activities in our near region and its sea-lanes (e.g. northern approaches, Tasman Sea and SW Pacific).
With an exception though for a ice-strengthened Southern Ocean OPV (SOPV) capability, purpose designed vessels to operate deep into the Southern Ocean and equipped to monitor surface and undersea activities. Now that the CCP has validated submarined launched ICBM's surely equipping such a vessel with towed arrays and other autonomous surveillance craft would be beneficial. I think we can look towards what the Canadians (AOPS) and the Scandinavian navies are developing in these areas to get us some insights for future options.
recce.k1
Well-Known Member
The CDC is certainly an interesting development, and in some ways there are some general synergies with NZ in terms of operating in extreme cold weather environments. Wonder if there is any Defence interest in terms of information gathering?
CJR makes a good point on manning levels and therefore the need to replicate specialised skilled positions even on lower manned vessels, versus prioritising the needs for the primary combat vessels. So something else to manage.
Another potential option as OPV replacements to keep an eye on is the AH120. Initially a fairly basic concept, now with Babcock and Saab partnering to offer Sweden a solution to replace their Visby-class corvettes as part of the Luleå-class frigate programme it appears to be a more matured platform, featuring reconfigurable mission spaces, sonar, towed array, 16-VLS and low manning (80), all of which would surely be attractive for the RNZN's needs and future growth options for this region?
Perhaps if AH140 is selected to replace the ANZAC's then the AH120 could offer a similar platform/machinery/training/support platform synergies (as OPV replacements) for the wider RNZN fleet?
Can Babcock Win Sweden’s Next-Generation Frigate Contest?
The Luleå class frigate programme marks a decisive shift by the Swedish Navy to a larger, long-range surface combatant optimised for NATO operations in Northern Europe. Here, we consider Babcock and Saab’s joint proposal to meet the Swedish requirement. From stealth corvette to frigate The Luleå...
www.navylookout.com
I cant see Treasury going for a vessel this well armed to replace our OPV, if it came in cheaper than the Mogami or AH140 they would definitely push this type of ship as our Frigate replacement, yes we need a better armed OPV replacement but not one thats basically a lite version of our current ANZAC Class. Both Companies have good products on there books priorty should be our high end warfighting replacement first then bring on the OPV with the same CMS, equipment as close to the Frigate as possible so we dont fall down the rabbit hole again of the five different ships of our Protector Class.
The CDC is certainly an interesting development, and in some ways there are some general synergies with NZ in terms of operating in extreme cold weather environments. Wonder if there is any Defence interest in terms of information gathering?
CJR makes a good point on manning levels and therefore the need to replicate specialised skilled positions even on lower manned vessels, versus prioritising the needs for the primary combat vessels. So something else to manage.
Another potential option as OPV replacements to keep an eye on is the AH120. Initially a fairly basic concept, now with Babcock and Saab partnering to offer Sweden a solution to replace their Visby-class corvettes as part of the Luleå-class frigate programme it appears to be a more matured platform, featuring reconfigurable mission spaces, sonar, towed array, 16-VLS and low manning (80), all of which would surely be attractive for the RNZN's needs and future growth options for this region?
Perhaps if AH140 is selected to replace the ANZAC's then the AH120 could offer a similar platform/machinery/training/support platform synergies (as OPV replacements) for the wider RNZN fleet?
Can Babcock Win Sweden’s Next-Generation Frigate Contest?
The Luleå class frigate programme marks a decisive shift by the Swedish Navy to a larger, long-range surface combatant optimised for NATO operations in Northern Europe. Here, we consider Babcock and Saab’s joint proposal to meet the Swedish requirement. From stealth corvette to frigate The Luleå...
The CDC is certainly an interesting development, and in some ways there are some general synergies with NZ in terms of operating in extreme cold weather environments. Wonder if there is any Defence interest in terms of information gathering?
CJR makes a good point on manning levels and therefore the need to replicate specialised skilled positions even on lower manned vessels, versus prioritising the needs for the primary combat vessels. So something else to manage.
Another potential option as OPV replacements to keep an eye on is the AH120. Initially a fairly basic concept, now with Babcock and Saab partnering to offer Sweden a solution to replace their Visby-class corvettes as part of the Luleå-class frigate programme it appears to be a more matured platform, featuring reconfigurable mission spaces, sonar, towed array, 16-VLS and low manning (80), all of which would surely be attractive for the RNZN's needs and future growth options for this region?
Perhaps if AH140 is selected to replace the ANZAC's then the AH120 could offer a similar platform/machinery/training/support platform synergies (as OPV replacements) for the wider RNZN fleet?
Can Babcock Win Sweden’s Next-Generation Frigate Contest?
The Luleå class frigate programme marks a decisive shift by the Swedish Navy to a larger, long-range surface combatant optimised for NATO operations in Northern Europe. Here, we consider Babcock and Saab’s joint proposal to meet the Swedish requirement. From stealth corvette to frigate The Luleå...
Babcock missed this order as the contract was awarded to the French Naval Group for 4 vessels at $1B each.The CDC is certainly an interesting development, and in some ways there are some general synergies with NZ in terms of operating in extreme cold weather environments. Wonder if there is any Defence interest in terms of information gathering?
CJR makes a good point on manning levels and therefore the need to replicate specialised skilled positions even on lower manned vessels, versus prioritising the needs for the primary combat vessels. So something else to manage.
Another potential option as OPV replacements to keep an eye on is the AH120. Initially a fairly basic concept, now with Babcock and Saab partnering to offer Sweden a solution to replace their Visby-class corvettes as part of the Luleå-class frigate programme it appears to be a more matured platform, featuring reconfigurable mission spaces, sonar, towed array, 16-VLS and low manning (80), all of which would surely be attractive for the RNZN's needs and future growth options for this region?
Perhaps if AH140 is selected to replace the ANZAC's then the AH120 could offer a similar platform/machinery/training/support platform synergies (as OPV replacements) for the wider RNZN fleet?
Can Babcock Win Sweden’s Next-Generation Frigate Contest?
The Luleå class frigate programme marks a decisive shift by the Swedish Navy to a larger, long-range surface combatant optimised for NATO operations in Northern Europe. Here, we consider Babcock and Saab’s joint proposal to meet the Swedish requirement. From stealth corvette to frigate The Luleå...
Yes I agree with you here. NZ could use a European or Canadian design corvette for our SOPV as they are rated to work up to the Arctic Ice edges. Upgrade the main gun (3 or 5 inch) with a below deck magazine. Add 2" and 25mm to supplement. Could add the 8 cell Mk41 VLS {ex ANZAC frigates) and leave it at that . Provision to be made for modular additions interchangable with our new frigate choice. The main gun and VLS 8 cell would have to be installed during the build. No intention to compete with or alter the focus on our ANZAC frigate replacement.
Aluminium Hail
Member
Are there not Antarctic Treaty limits on the size and type of weapons that can be on a naval vessel in Antarctic waters?
My belief was no larger than 25mm cannon but a quick Google doesn't confirm that.
Edit to add: even if there were not explicit restrictions I don't think NZ would want to be seen as 'militarising' the Antarctic.
Yes there is limits I think 30mm but I believe not all run with this.