Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[CJR]

NEW TOPIC: - Corvettes
With the Govt deciding and funding the life extensions of Te Mana, Te Kaha and Canterbury until mid 2030's and in the meantime looking at their replacements I will take that as a priority in progress . Aotearoa also excluded.
We are left with the 2nd tier eg OPV"s and others that require replacement and have a lower manning scale. To me introducing a corvette or class of is a no brainer. I see that Canada, Norway and Denmark are looking at them. Asian nations have them etc. Able to ease the loads on the ANZAC"s - potential convoy coverage, EEZ Zone coverage and Pacific Island support , ASW detection etc etc. Lower manning scale suits a growing Navy.

Problem is a Corvette doesn't generate that much saving in crew numbers (E.g. Mogami class FF usually quoted as 90 crew vs MMPV90 corvette with 70 crew) while significantly degrading weapons load, seakeeping and range.

 

[Xthenaki]

NZ should do a deal with South Korea they can provide a ship for every class . Phillipines has done well with them and they did great job with our tanker Aoteraroa .

South Korea are one of the worlds top shipbuilding nations. As you say "Aotearoa" is an excellent example and prior to her "Endeavour". Once the design has been selected it rests with the design team on whether they will allow your selected shipyard to proceed with the build.

 

[Xthenaki]

Problem is a Corvette doesn't generate that much saving in crew numbers (E.g. Mogami class FF usually quoted as 90 crew vs MMPV90 corvette with 70 crew) while significantly degrading weapons load, seakeeping and range.

Accepted with a higher end version. Canada is looking at a deal for 20 corvettes at a build cost total of around 5 Billion dollars {US or Canadian).
to be called the Vigilant class. They are basic workhorses leaving the serious stuff to the river class now under construction. There are options that could be suitable for NZ without paying a premium price. Using a modular system gives more options. eg; A towed array Sonar system. A main armament comprising of a 5" or 3" main gun. 8 cell Mk41 VLS. 4 or 8 NSM may suffice. A crew of say 35 (-+} with up to 70 if required. Looking for a compromise between our OPV's and the high end Mogami. Suitable for convoy escort, EEZ and Pacific Island petrols. Provision for trainees needing sea experience.

 

[recce.k1]

NEW TOPIC: - Corvettes
With the Govt deciding and funding the life extensions of Te Mana, Te Kaha and Canterbury until mid 2030's and in the meantime looking at their replacements I will take that as a priority in progress . Aotearoa also excluded.
We are left with the 2nd tier eg OPV"s and others that require replacement and have a lower manning scale. To me introducing a corvette or class of is a no brainer. I see that Canada, Norway and Denmark are looking at them. Asian nations have them etc. Able to ease the loads on the ANZAC"s - potential convoy coverage, EEZ Zone coverage and Pacific Island support , ASW detection etc etc. Lower manning scale suits a growing Navy.

I agree there potentially could be an opportunity as (upgraded) replacements for the Protector-class OPV's. Like most navies the RNZN would prefer vessels with at least some "improved" capabilities (compared to what these OPV's currently have). There were mutterings about this back in the early 2000's (pre-internet discussions), which is hard to cite nowadays but Wiki gives us an idea of some of the RNZN's thoughts at the time.

The design and fitting of the OPVs was contested by the Executive, MOD, MFAT and the Navy. In June 2004 it was decided to use the remaining Budget allocation to fit the OPVs with ice strengthening, described by Deputy Secretary of Defence, Bruce Green, as a simple alteration which would add little cost, rather than use the money to fit the OPVs with a 57 mm (2 in) or 76 mm (3 in) small corvette-type general-purpose gun fitted to all post-1980 Irish OPVs including Ireland's latest order for a stretched 90-metre OPV[6] or upgraded sensors given that military and civilian threat to territorial threats to the EEZ and NZ cannot be precisely differentiated. In reality the ice-strengthened belt resulted in the OPVs being 300 tons overweight and required much time and $84 million expenditure to modify.[7] HMNZS Wellington performed well in sea state 7/8 in the Ross Ice Shelf in appalling conditions in February 2012 but still has only half the margin of the ordered specifications, limiting future modernisation and service life, given the inevitable increase in weight during the course of warships life.

Nowadays though (unlike back then), with various potential state actor threats and new technologies such as drone swarms to counter, there would surely be an identifiable need to move on from "like-for-like" in terms of an OPV replacement, which should be ditched for something better equipped to monitor activities in our near region and its sea-lanes (e.g. northern approaches, Tasman Sea and SW Pacific).

With an exception though for a ice-strengthened Southern Ocean OPV (SOPV) capability, purpose designed vessels to operate deep into the Southern Ocean and equipped to monitor surface and undersea activities. Now that the CCP has validated submarined launched ICBM's surely equipping such a vessel with towed arrays and other autonomous surveillance craft would be beneficial. I think we can look towards what the Canadians (AOPS) and the Scandinavian navies are developing in these areas to get us some insights for future options.

 

[recce.k1]

Accepted with a higher end version. Canada is looking at a deal for 20 corvettes at a build cost total of around 5 Billion dollars {US or Canadian).
to be called the Vigilant class. They are basic workhorses leaving the serious stuff to the river class now under construction. There are options that could be suitable for NZ without paying a premium price. Using a modular system gives more options. eg; A towed array Sonar system. A main armament comprising of a 5" or 3" main gun. 8 cell Mk41 VLS. 4 or 8 NSM may suffice. A crew of say 35 (-+} with up to 70 if required. Looking for a compromise between our OPV's and the high end Mogami. Suitable for convoy escort, EEZ and Pacific Island petrols. Provision for trainees needing sea experience.

The CDC is certainly an interesting development, and in some ways there are some general synergies with NZ in terms of operating in extreme cold weather environments. Wonder if there is any Defence interest in terms of information gathering?

CJR makes a good point on manning levels and therefore the need to replicate specialised skilled positions even on lower manned vessels, versus prioritising the needs for the primary combat vessels. So something else to manage.

Another potential option as OPV replacements to keep an eye on is the AH120. Initially a fairly basic concept, now with Babcock and Saab partnering to offer Sweden a solution to replace their Visby-class corvettes as part of the Luleå-class frigate programme it appears to be a more matured platform, featuring reconfigurable mission spaces, sonar, towed array, 16-VLS and low manning (80), all of which would surely be attractive for the RNZN's needs and future growth options for this region?

Perhaps if AH140 is selected to replace the ANZAC's then the AH120 could offer a similar platform/machinery/training/support platform synergies (as OPV replacements) for the wider RNZN fleet?

Can Babcock Win Sweden’s Next-Generation Frigate Contest?

The Luleå class frigate programme marks a decisive shift by the Swedish Navy to a larger, long-range surface combatant optimised for NATO operations in Northern Europe. Here, we consider Babcock and Saab’s joint proposal to meet the Swedish requirement. From stealth corvette to frigate The Luleå...

www.navylookout.com

 

[Cadredave]

Accepted with a higher end version. Canada is looking at a deal for 20 corvettes at a build cost total of around 5 Billion dollars {US or Canadian).
to be called the Vigilant class. They are basic workhorses leaving the serious stuff to the river class now under construction. There are options that could be suitable for NZ without paying a premium price. Using a modular system gives more options. eg; A towed array Sonar system. A main armament comprising of a 5" or 3" main gun. 8 cell Mk41 VLS. 4 or 8 NSM may suffice. A crew of say 35 (-+} with up to 70 if required. Looking for a compromise between our OPV's and the high end Mogami. Suitable for convoy escort, EEZ and Pacific Island petrols. Provision for trainees needing sea experience.

I cant see Treasury going for a vessel this well armed to replace our OPV, if it came in cheaper than the Mogami or AH140 they would definitely push this type of ship as our Frigate replacement, yes we need a better armed OPV replacement but not one thats basically a lite version of our current ANZAC Class. Both Companies have good products on there books priorty should be our high end warfighting replacement first then bring on the OPV with the same CMS, equipment as close to the Frigate as possible so we dont fall down the rabbit hole again of the five different ships of our Protector Class.