Royal New Zealand Air Force

Gracie1234

Active Member
The full interview is on Q and A, https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/episodes/s2022-e34
This is very interesting and I will say the minister looks like he is getting focused on this part of his role. It does look like what is happening in Ukraine is having a large impact on how our govt understands what is happening in our region. It now seems obvious that it is cheaper to invest in defence and have it when you need it, than to rebuild your country after a war. I doubt Ukraine would have been invaded if it had maintained its nuclear deterrent.
 

Stuart M

Well-Known Member
Interesting to see our current defence minister on the news today saying ' I won't rule out acquiring combat jets' for our RNZAF. Could it be that our govt is a little spooked by current events with China and the pacific now?
More probably he is spooked by the possibility of loss of an election and wants to help shore up the vote of slightly concerned centre voters with a bit of empty hinting around air strike.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
More probably he is spooked by the possibility of loss of an election and wants to help shore up the vote of slightly concerned centre voters with a bit of empty hinting around air strike.
Be careful because you have strayed into the minefield of politics and that makes Moderators very twitchy.
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The RNZAF is back in the news again for all the wrong reasons when the plane meant to bring the PM back from Antarctica broke down with a prop fault blamed on the cold, Personally I think that age could have been a factor as well.( them prop seal ant getting any younger) It would seem that our PM carries a significant amount of bad luck as carry on luggage when she uses our air force aircraft:D
I wonder if she has learned anything from the embarrassment,,,,,, doubt it :oops:
 
The RNZAF is back in the news again for all the wrong reasons when the plane meant to bring the PM back from Antarctica broke down with a prop fault blamed on the cold, Personally I think that age could have been a factor as well.( them prop seal ant getting any younger) It would seem that our PM carries a significant amount of bad luck as carry on luggage when she uses our air force aircraft:D
I wonder if she has learned anything from the embarrassment,,,,,, doubt it :oops:
Probably this is a good thing in helping to protect both the Hercules replacement programme and the Strategic Lift capability from cancellation or radical de-scoping.
I'd guess that the PM, and MPs generally, think that supporting Antarctica is a Good Thing (TM) - they've just approved umpteen million dollars for Scott Base redevelopment, after all. So when it's demonstrated that our existing capability is between marginal and failing, it helps with the argument to upgrade / supplement it.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The RNZAF is back in the news again for all the wrong reasons when the plane meant to bring the PM back from Antarctica broke down with a prop fault blamed on the cold, Personally I think that age could have been a factor as well.( them prop seal ant getting any younger) It would seem that our PM carries a significant amount of bad luck as carry on luggage when she uses our air force aircraft:D
I wonder if she has learned anything from the embarrassment,,,,,, doubt it :oops:
Screenshot_20221030-124944_NZ Herald.jpg
Source: NZ Herald.

Probably this is a good thing in helping to protect both the Hercules replacement programme and the Strategic Lift capability from cancellation or radical de-scoping.
I'd guess that the PM, and MPs generally, think that supporting Antarctica is a Good Thing (TM) - they've just approved umpteen million dollars for Scott Base redevelopment, after all. So when it's demonstrated that our existing capability is between marginal and failing, it helps with the argument to upgrade / supplement it.
A couple more Hercs would be good. But what are they going to do for the next two years until the J-30 models start arriving. The reason that they are being delivered that late is because the current Minister of Finance was trying to make his books look good. Maybe now would be the time to order a couple of KHI C-2s from Japan. Two now and another one or two in six years time.
 

Gooey

Well-Known Member
Nga

Didn’t know about the reason for the delay.

As an idea I’d suggest that creating a small fleet of 2 - 4 as well as 5 Hercules is illogical. Why not 8 - 10 airframes of the same type?

Rules of 3; training; engineering; operational flexibility.

We could even dare to do military missions like AAR and ISR!

The other point is that RAAF have 36SQN for out-sized
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Nga
As an idea I’d suggest that creating a small fleet of 2 - 4 as well as 5 Hercules is illogical. Why not 8 - 10 airframes of the same type?
It's not illogical because the C-2 would be the strategic airlifter. They can go to Phoenix Field at McMurdo, orbit for 45 mins and RTNZ whilst still having min safe fuel requirements without requiring a Point of Safe Return. Something that neither the C-130s or B757s can do. That's a requirement for the future strategic airlift capability. A dedicated military transport aircraft rather than a converted airliner should be the requirement. Converted airliners are good for somethings but not all and they certainly don't cover all of NZDF requirements or meet all of NZG policy requirements. The Hercs are NZDF's tactical airlift capability.
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
No offence Ngati, but with the state of, and the current governments plans, or lack of, for the NZDF why would NZ require strategic anything? The Frigates are definitely not of any real strategic value, not enough P8s to do domestic work and deploy in any significant way, Army desperately undermanned and equipped to defend themselves against a modern adversary.
Nz has top notch quality DF personal, we know this, but the unwillingness to keep the NZDF relevant is distressing. There is NO big stick at all. The only thing that the C2s could be used for, is disaster relief, or transport to a beneign zone.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
No offence Ngati, but with the state of, and the current governments plans, or lack of, for the NZDF why would NZ require strategic anything? The Frigates are definitely not of any real strategic value, not enough P8s to do domestic work and deploy in any significant way, Army desperately undermanned and equipped to defend themselves against a modern adversary.
Nz has top notch quality DF personal, we know this, but the unwillingness to keep the NZDF relevant is distressing. There is NO big stick at all. The only thing that the C2s could be used for, is disaster relief, or transport to a beneign zone.
The C-2s can operate into a hot zone. That's what the JASDF use them for in their strategic airlift role.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
The C-2s can operate into a hot zone. That's what the JASDF use them for in their strategic airlift role.
Mate I would love to see NZ be able to contribute something of value to the ANZAC tradition, you always have. But I just can't see the C2 being procured. If NZ had of selected the Jap MPA instead of the P8, then maybe, but I just can't realistically see your current bean counters buying anything of real value.....or anything really.

I'm also very worried about our own bean counters over here.
 

OldTex

Active Member
The reason that they are being delivered that late is because the current Minister of Finance was trying to make his books look good. Maybe now would be the time to order a couple of KHI C-2s from Japan. Two now and another one or two in six years time.
Any hope for a proper strategic airlifter for the NZDF will remain a pipe dream for the very reason you provided for the timing of the C-130J-30 delivery for the RNZAF. Short of a seismic shift in political will, with a commensurate loosening of the Treasury purse strings, nothing is likely to change anytime soon. Some would say that Uncle Helen casts a very long shadow.
 

Lolcake

Member
Any hope for a proper strategic airlifter for the NZDF will remain a pipe dream for the very reason you provided for the timing of the C-130J-30 delivery for the RNZAF. Short of a seismic shift in political will, with a commensurate loosening of the Treasury purse strings, nothing is likely to change anytime soon. Some would say that Uncle Helen casts a very long shadow.
You can throw an acf in the same hat too. The outlay and effort to get up one up and running again after 20 odd years in an already barebones military would be enormous...one only has to look at the current measly gpd contribution, not to mention manpower shortages..
 

Gooey

Well-Known Member
Understood Nga, Strat Air is for that specific mission down south. It tempts the question though: what is the RNZAF for? To provide national security options to the national presumably; is the south a priority or even a requirement for kiwi air?

As per the 2 clapped out frigates (copyright recognition: thank you PM Clark) there comes a point where the role may as well be ditched. If continued it’ll just end-up embarrassing the country even more.
 

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
A USN P-8A from Patrol Squadron (VP) 10 was based at Ohakea last month and conducted mission flights around NZ and Fiji's EEZ's, showcasing the aircraft to RNZAF personnel and undertaking surveillance for the Fijian authorities to help track fishing vessels of interest (good to see US supporting the Pacific communities at a practical level - it will be appreciated by them).

Showcasing its ASW capabilities VP-10 deployed a MK-39 Expendable Mobile Anti-Submarine Warfare Training Target (EMATT) ... (perhaps a useful training aid the NZDF could acquire to maintain its skills in home waters)?

Back on land the USN personnel were treated to some community events to welcome them which they reciprocated.

Finally looks like VP-10's P-8A is the first to "park up" on the hardstand in front of the RNZAF's new Poseidon hanger!
1000w_q75.jpg
 
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