Royal Netherlands Navy
- Thread starter walter
- Start date
Inverno
New Member
Looks like some kind of Dutch experience may be next:
"It is not possible for the Netherlands to independently investigate the quotation from the French shipyard Naval Group. This was a requirement from Defense, but according to French law no foreign audit agency is allowed to investigate French tenders. Defense adjusted the requirement during the tender, without informing the House of Representatives or the other yards. In theory, Naval Group can therefore do whatever they want with the price, without Dutch control. This is evident from research by Marineschips.nl in collaboration with de Volkskrant ." [Google translation]
Marineschepen.nl: Defense adjusted requirements to keep the French shipyard on board
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Thank you for sharing.
If the price of DCNS' offer was low because of subsidie from the French government, and the price stay low, then it is not really a disaster.
But if DCNS later can change/increase the price as much as they want, and the Dutch government can not control and check the reason, then we have a problem.
It is just weird that Defensie change it's own rules and procedures just to satisfy/give an advantage to one contestant, and also in a silent way. It almost smells like corruption is involved in it.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
Also talks about a new concept called MICAN based on using containerised systems on 2 commercial ships with low manning.
Talks about adding Tomahawks to the LCF, LCF replacement as well the new SSKs, with the De Ruyter to travel to San Diego late this year for first of class firing.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Some recent news.
The Oostende, the first of the series of mine hunters/mine countermeasures vessels in the Belgian-Dutch rMCM programme, intended for the Belgian Navy, began its first sea trials campaign from Concarneau on 17 July 2024. The aim is to implement and sea-test the vessel's performance before its delivery in summer 2025.
Each of the two countries is procuring six new mine countermeasure (MCM) vessels, so in total 12 of these ships will be constructed, in France.
www.navalnews.com
The court in Den Haag has decided that the Netherlands government can continue with the procurement of the new submarines from DCNS.
nos.nl
The Oostende, the first of the series of mine hunters/mine countermeasures vessels in the Belgian-Dutch rMCM programme, intended for the Belgian Navy, began its first sea trials campaign from Concarneau on 17 July 2024. The aim is to implement and sea-test the vessel's performance before its delivery in summer 2025.
Each of the two countries is procuring six new mine countermeasure (MCM) vessels, so in total 12 of these ships will be constructed, in France.
Proefvaart eerste nieuwe mijnenjager Oostende 'succes'
Nederlandse en Belgische mijnenbestrijdingsvaartuigen worden in Frankrijk gebouwd
marineschepen.nl
First sea trials for the Oostende, the first mine countermeasures vessel in the Belgian-Dutch rMCM programme - Naval News
The Oostende, the first of the series of mine countermeasures vessels in the Belgian-Dutch rMCM programme, intended for the Belgian Navy, began its first sea trials campaign from Concarneau on 17 July 2024. The aim is to implement and sea-test the vessel's performance before its delivery in...
www.navalnews.com
The court in Den Haag has decided that the Netherlands government can continue with the procurement of the new submarines from DCNS.
Rechter verwerpt bezwaar tegen Franse winst aanbesteding Nederlandse onderzeeboten
Offerte tkMS volgens rechter terecht ongeldig verklaard
marineschepen.nl
Onderzeeboten-deal Frankrijk gaat door, bezwaar Duitse scheepsbouwer afgewezen
De miljardenopdracht van vier nieuwe onderzeeërs blijft bij de Fransen en gaat niet naar de Duitse scheepsbouwer TKMS.
nos.nl
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Some good news.
1. The fire on board the Zr.Ms.Evertsen F805 wasn't that big, so luckily the damage isn't that severe.
2. The new Defensienota has showed us that much more will be spent the coming years on defence. On top the ordered two ASW-frigates, the Dutch government plan to add two more. It also plans to add 6 more NH90 NFHs.
nos.nl
nos.nl
www.navalnews.com
1. The fire on board the Zr.Ms.Evertsen F805 wasn't that big, so luckily the damage isn't that severe.
2. The new Defensienota has showed us that much more will be spent the coming years on defence. On top the ordered two ASW-frigates, the Dutch government plan to add two more. It also plans to add 6 more NH90 NFHs.
Plan voor twee extra fregatten voor marine
Nederland bestelt geen twee maar vier ASW-fregatten
marineschepen.nl
Naast tanks ook extra F-35's, fregatten en helikopters voor Defensie
In totaal wordt er structureel 2,4 miljard euro geïnvesteerd in Defensie. Morgen worden de plannen gepresenteerd.
nos.nl
Defensienota: leger redt het niet met alleen beroepsmilitairen en reservisten
De oude dienstplicht keert "niet direct" terug, maar Defensie zoekt wel naar een dienmodel met meer verplichting dan nu.
nos.nl
Netherlands Orders 2 additional Frigates, 6 more helicopters to 'prepare for the worst' - Naval News
The Dutch Ministry of Defence will receive additional funding as an answer to the current complex security situation in Europe and beyond. The Royal Netherlands Navy will get two additional ASW frigates and 6 more NH90 NFH helicopters.
www.navalnews.com
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Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
It's now official, the contract has been signed.
The last time a contract was signed, was in 1978 with RDM, for the order of the four Walrusklasse submarines.
It is however the first time ever, since 120 years, that submarines for the Koninklijke Marine are not to be constructed in the Netherlands, but in a shipyard abroad.
Eerste ondertekening onderzeebootcontract sinds 1978
Bestelling vier onderzeeboten Orkaklasse bij Naval Group.
marineschepen.nl
Edit:
Here the press release in English.
Naval Group signs contract to deliver four Barracuda Family expeditionary submarines to the Netherlands Ministry of Defense | Naval Group
As an international naval defence player, Naval Group is a partner for countries seeking to maintain control of their maritime sovereignty. Naval Group develops innovative solutions to meet its customers’ requirements. Present throughout the entire life cycle of vessels, it designs, produces...
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downunderblue
Active Member
Pump jet or braded screw?
Much of the broadcasted justification why the RAN selected the Barracuda was that it was deemed 'regionally superior'. Build from the Suffren design, the pump jet was inherently quieter, especially on transit at reasonable.speed.
The thing is, there had to my knowledge never been a pump jet on a non nuclear boat, with the Russian's previously toying with it on a modified Kilo but unable to make it work.
I never got any clarify if the conventional design was 110% guaranteed to be engineered with a pump jet, or whether a bladed screw would eventually be used in compromise when they realised it was just wouldn't work?
Not to say the conventional.Baracuda wouldn't be a great boat, but that pump jet seemed to be a major reason it looked so good, and regionally superior on paper.
I looked at the above video and couldn't see any image of the stern. My curiousity again peaked and I wondered if anyone on here what NG actually offered the Netherlands?
Much of the broadcasted justification why the RAN selected the Barracuda was that it was deemed 'regionally superior'. Build from the Suffren design, the pump jet was inherently quieter, especially on transit at reasonable.speed.
The thing is, there had to my knowledge never been a pump jet on a non nuclear boat, with the Russian's previously toying with it on a modified Kilo but unable to make it work.
I never got any clarify if the conventional design was 110% guaranteed to be engineered with a pump jet, or whether a bladed screw would eventually be used in compromise when they realised it was just wouldn't work?
Not to say the conventional.Baracuda wouldn't be a great boat, but that pump jet seemed to be a major reason it looked so good, and regionally superior on paper.
I looked at the above video and couldn't see any image of the stern. My curiousity again peaked and I wondered if anyone on here what NG actually offered the Netherlands?
I'm sure it's not accidental - most submarine unveiling ceremonies are conducted with plenty of cover for the stern - even just getting a blade count would be invaluable. I seem to recall one soviet era class had an entirely unique number of blades, such that as soon as you had a blade count, you were done, you could just classify it and get on with the rest of the job.
downunderblue
Active Member
Deliberate or not, I would think the Dutch military would be expecting a pump jet, but the big question is if Naval group can actually pull it off.
This was discussed in AU in 2017 (per below) but I for one never discovered where the truth was, and was suspicious that Naval Group was selling the RAN a vessel they just couldn't deliver upon.
www.abc.net.au
Now I hope I was wrong, but promising an unproven design introduces incredible risk into a strategically important program for the Dutch, so it should be Naval Group not the Koninklijke Marine that bears the cost on that risk (if they promised a pump jet).
PS- Mind you, in looking at the NG branded image posted above in this forum (dated 20MAR24), you will clearly note a 5 bladed screw in the drawings.
This was discussed in AU in 2017 (per below) but I for one never discovered where the truth was, and was suspicious that Naval Group was selling the RAN a vessel they just couldn't deliver upon.
Confusion over propulsion system for new subs - ABC listen
It's uncertain whether the Future Submarine fleet will have the anticipated ultra quiet propulsion system after a Naval Group executive refused to confirm it. Tom Iggulden reports.
www.abc.net.au
Now I hope I was wrong, but promising an unproven design introduces incredible risk into a strategically important program for the Dutch, so it should be Naval Group not the Koninklijke Marine that bears the cost on that risk (if they promised a pump jet).
PS- Mind you, in looking at the NG branded image posted above in this forum (dated 20MAR24), you will clearly note a 5 bladed screw in the drawings.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
The Netherlands will order 3 additional NH90 helicopters. The Defensie Helicopter Commando has at this moment 19 NH90s, which will grow to 22 with this batch of 3 extra NH90s.
www.pilootenvliegtuig.nl
Defensie bestelt 3 extra NH90-helikopters
Extra helikopters om op onderzeeboten te jagen
marineschepen.nl
NH90-vloot Defensie groeit van 19 naar 22 helikopters • Piloot & Vliegtuig
Het Defensie Helikopter Commando (DHC) krijgt de beschikking over drie extra NH90 NFH’s. Dat blijkt uit een brief die defensieminister Ruben Brekelmans aan de Tweede Kamer heeft gestuurd.
www.pilootenvliegtuig.nl
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Bofors got a contract to provide eight Bofors 40 Mk.4 naval guns. Bofors will deliver to both countries with two frigates each and two naval gun systems per frigate.
www.navalnews.com
The Netherlands and Belgium Select 40Mk4 Naval Gun for ASW Frigates - Naval News
BAE Systems has signed a contract to supply eight Bofors 40Mk4 naval gun systems for the Royal Netherlands and Belgian Navies for the ASW frigates.
www.navalnews.com
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Xavier in Roterdam at Damen Booth in NEDS exhibition. Focus on Netherlands-Belgium ASW Frigates. Netherlands will have 2+2 option and Belgium 2. This will be M Frigate replacement. However with 6000+ DWT and 145m length, will be considerably larger.
It will be Hybrid Diesel and Electric propulsion with electric only capable up to 15knts. Really design to minimize acoustic signature.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Some interesting technical details of the new Den Helder replenishment ship.
The Den Helder started the voyage from Galati on Saturday 16 November and will arrive in Vlissingen this friday. Koninklijke Schelde wil finish the Den Helder in its shipyard in Vlissingen.
Wapens en radars: de militaire kant van de Den Helder
Radars en wapensystemen, een interview met het Hoofd Technische Dienst
marineschepen.nl
The Den Helder started the voyage from Galati on Saturday 16 November and will arrive in Vlissingen this friday. Koninklijke Schelde wil finish the Den Helder in its shipyard in Vlissingen.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Some updates.
The new replenishment ship Zr.Ms Den Helder A834 arrived in Den Helder, for the first time completely finished. After more tests and trials the ship will become active in oktober.
Nieuw bevoorradingsschip Den Helder voor het eerst in Den Helder
Video | Nieuw oorlogsschip komt aan in Den Helder: 'We moeten afschrikken'
And two weeks ago Zr.Ms De Ruyter launched a Tomahawk Block IV cruise missile, near Norfolk in the Atlantic Ocean, which was the first time ever for a Koninklijke Marine ship. The Netherlands plans to order the Block V version.
Tomahawk-lancering door Nederlands fregat is historisch
Edit: here an article in English.
RNLN frigate completes Tomahawk launch test
The new replenishment ship Zr.Ms Den Helder A834 arrived in Den Helder, for the first time completely finished. After more tests and trials the ship will become active in oktober.
Nieuw bevoorradingsschip Den Helder voor het eerst in Den Helder
Video | Nieuw oorlogsschip komt aan in Den Helder: 'We moeten afschrikken'
And two weeks ago Zr.Ms De Ruyter launched a Tomahawk Block IV cruise missile, near Norfolk in the Atlantic Ocean, which was the first time ever for a Koninklijke Marine ship. The Netherlands plans to order the Block V version.
Tomahawk-lancering door Nederlands fregat is historisch
Edit: here an article in English.
RNLN frigate completes Tomahawk launch test
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Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
The State Department of the United States has approved a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Netherlands of Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles and related equipment for an estimated cost of €1,92 miljard / $2,19 billion.
The package which the Government of the Netherlands has requested includes up to 163 Tomahawk Block V All Up Rounds (AURs), 12 Tomahawk Block IV AURs; up to 10 Tactical Tomahawk Weapons Control Systems (TTWCS); and up to 2 Tomahawk Block IV telemetry missiles.
The package which the Government of the Netherlands has requested includes up to 163 Tomahawk Block V All Up Rounds (AURs), 12 Tomahawk Block IV AURs; up to 10 Tactical Tomahawk Weapons Control Systems (TTWCS); and up to 2 Tomahawk Block IV telemetry missiles.
Nederland wil tot 175 Tomahawks bestellen in Amerika
Amerikaanse ministerie van Buitenlandse Zaken keurt verkoop aan Nederland goed
marineschepen.nl
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Just released, a video of an interview about the current status of the Orkaklasse program, a new class of conventional diesel-electric submarines based on the nuclear powered Suffren Class of the Marine Nationale, to replace the Walrusklasse submarines.
The new submarines will be named Orka, Zwaardvis, Barracuda and Tijgerhaai, and the first two are planned to be delivered before 2035, in that year all Walrusklasse submarines will be older than 40 years.
The new submarines need to be able to operate in shallow waters, but also be able to reach the Nederlandse Antillen in the Caribbean Sea, and besides the standard torpedoes, they will be capable to attack targets on land.
The first new minehunter for the Koninklijke Marine, Zr.Ms. Vlissingen, is in sea trials.
Eerste mijnenbestrijdingsvaartuig later opgeleverd door aanvaring
The new submarines will be named Orka, Zwaardvis, Barracuda and Tijgerhaai, and the first two are planned to be delivered before 2035, in that year all Walrusklasse submarines will be older than 40 years.
The first new minehunter for the Koninklijke Marine, Zr.Ms. Vlissingen, is in sea trials.
Eerste mijnenbestrijdingsvaartuig later opgeleverd door aanvaring
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downunderblue
Active Member
I know this is not the same as the Attack class, but find it interesting to see a conventional screw propeller instead of the pump jet.
I still question whether NG could pull of a pump jet, and whether the RAN were switch sold on it.
Clearly a screw is less risk, and perfectly acceptable if you don't need high-er speed transits or are operating close to home port. I hope NG deliver this to the Marine Nationale on time and on budget, as on paper it looks like an impressive design for the Dutch context.