Artisan (on the Type 26) isn't meant to compete with long range radars. It's a medium range radar. Type 45 & the carriers have long range radars - S1850M - alongside their MRRs, & there's the option of upgrading them to the latest version of SMART-L.
Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates
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DAVID DUNLOP
Active Member
Agree swerve. Although it depends on your perception on the term of "long range" The Artisan 997 has a max range of 200kms as compared to the SMART-L with a top range of about 400kms. Yes, a long range as compared to the Artisan 997 but the range of the 997 compared to other shorter range AW radars could be considered "long range". The SPY 7 (V) 1 LRDR & CEAFAR 2 naval radar range's have not yet been officially identified yet, but most likely much more than the SMART-L or even the SPY 1 (V) 1.
DAVID DUNLOP
Active Member
The SMART-L MM seems to be a very good Netherlands Thales BMD sensor with an acquisition & tracking range of at least 1500kms as advertised below. The SPY 7(V) 1 BMD acquisition & tracking ranges are not as yet known but would be similar to theirs. Cheers!
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Comes as no surprise that Irving is shutting down operations due to COVID-19. Hopefully they don’t use this event as a crutch to explain away unrelated delays 3-4 months from now.
ottawacitizen.com
Construction of new Arctic ships, maintenance of frigates halted because of COVID-19
Construction of the Royal Canadian Navy’s new Arctic and offshore patrol ships and maintenance of its frigates has been temporarily halted because of the novel…
ottawacitizen.com
DAVID DUNLOP
Active Member
Hi JF. It probably would not be in Irving's best interest to use this COVID-19 virus as a "crutch" as you say. The contract for any delays would mean less ($$) to their bottom line! We just have to wait and see if this delay is just a glitch in the building process and what the timeline looks like for the building of these 6 AOPs at the end, years from now. Cheers!Comes as no surprise that Irving is shutting down operations due to COVID-19. Hopefully they don’t use this event as a crutch to explain away unrelated delays 3-4 months from now.
Construction of new Arctic ships, maintenance of frigates halted because of COVID-19
Construction of the Royal Canadian Navy’s new Arctic and offshore patrol ships and maintenance of its frigates has been temporarily halted because of the novel…
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
No, the current delay due to COVID-19 is not a glitch in the program IMO. I am more concerned 3-4 months from now if new delays are announced unrelated to COVID-19. On a more serious note, this COVID-19 crisis could have much longer impact on all sorts of stuff, defence included. The economic consequences may dictate numerous changes to budgetary priorities.Hi JF. It probably would not be in Irving's best interest to use this COVID-19 virus as a "crutch" as you say. The contract for any delays would mean less ($$) to their bottom line! We just have to wait and see if this delay is just a glitch in the building process and what the timeline looks like for the building of these 6 AOPs at the end, years from now. Cheers!
Hi, I've been following the discussion about the Canadian Surface Combatant and haven't seen anything new lately, but tripped over something related to CEC while doing a general search related to the CSC. I hope I'm not violating any forum rules by posting this, but at some point, Gibbs & Cox, in support of Irving Shipbuilding, posted an opening for a Senior Cooperative Engagement Capability Engineer and Subject Matter Expert to work on the Canadian Surface Combatant project, integrating "the CEC system into the integrated AN/SPY-7 AEGIS radar/Canadian Combat Management System 330 (CMS) being developed by Lockheed Martin Canada".
DAVID DUNLOP
Active Member
Hello Barnold. Good to hear from you. Yes this is the first new tidbit of news that I have heard about the CSC Frigate in some time as well. CEC is a great tool to have in the kit bag but alas, no matter how much Naval experience our Combat Systems Engineers or Combat officers have, they would not qualify as they must have American citizenship (Dual Citizenship?). The SPY 7 (V) 1 appears to be a good fit for the CSC Frigate and this job description is a good step towards integration with the CMS 330 but don't forget, the successful applicant will have to integrate with the US AEGIS system as well. Nice to see though that LM is pressing ahead with CSC integration. Is Gibbs & Cox supporting Irving Shipbuilding or Lockheed Martin's SPY 7?
Hi David, Gibbs & Cox is, according to their website, "supporting Irving Shipyards and the Royal Canadian Navy on the early stages of the Canadian Surface Combatant Program." (Last line under 'International Relationships', here: Gibbs & Cox History — Gibbs and Cox Maritime Solutions )
The position that Gibbs & Cox were looking to fill, if I'm reading it correctly, was for a senior engineer to work on the CSC project at Irving, designing and testing the integration of the Cooperative Engagement Capability system with the CSC's "AN/SPY-7 AEGIS radar/Canadian Combat Management System 330".
It seemed notable to me because, though it's been reasonably speculated that the CSC might get CEC, this was the first solid trace that I, at least, have seen indicating that it probably is. Also of interest was the requirement for someone with a specific understanding of the employment of SM-2 and SM-6 missiles, appearing to confirm the RCN's choice of long range SAM.
Admittedly, I'm no expert, just someone who's been following the subject with interest, but it sure looks like the potential combination of SPY-7, AEGIS, CEC, and SM-6 could result in a very impressive AAW frigate.
Interesting in another way. As with most ship designers, BAE are normally, and legitimately, very protective of their IP. As a result they usually ensure that their are exclusionary clauses in their contracts to prevent the involvement in the build of their designs of other ship designers, which of course is what G & C are.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
One of the major differences between the RCN and the RN and RAN, is that the latter 2 are also operating specialist AAW Destroyers where the RCN isnt. But still have the req to replace the capability lost with the retirement of the Tribal class Destroyers, so it would make some sense for the RCN Type 26 to have a very strong AAW capability.
While it's still only "speculated" that the CSC will have CEC (on quite strong grounds) AEGIS and CEC were mandated for the RAN ships at least as far back as 2017. I believe that we will use the Hunters as powerful swing role vessels well capable of AAW but specialising in ASW, and the VLS loadout will be determined to match the expected role. It will be interesting to see how each block of ships differs from those preceding, because that will at least in part be informed by the actual roles they are filling.
oldsig
There is a dit floating around that the Canadian government intends to put wheels on the bottom of the CSC so that they can multirole them.
Is there a chance of wings as well so that they can take part in Fighter Competition XIII ?
oldsig
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Depending on how the current pandemic pans out, there could be significant changes to the CSC and fighter replacement programs. The current bailout program is budgeted at levels exceeding the current combined capital budget for these two military programs. If the crisis sees multiple waves of infections the bailout costs will exceed the life-time costs of these two programs if no vaccine solution is forthcoming.
DAVID DUNLOP
Active Member
Agree totally Barnold. CEC was supposed to be a part of the CCMS 330 system. The CSC Frigate will at the very least be equipped with the SM2. Don't know about the SM6 (fitted for but not with?). I fit does indeed get the SM6 as well, this will really be a game changer for Canada with this Long Range AAW capability. Cheers!
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I have no doubt the RCN wants CEC. Whether it has been mandated for the CMS330 yet, don’t know but probably. WRT to SM2 and SM6, the latter will almost certainly be coming at some point after an initial SM2 order. I am more interested in the integration of the SM3 for BMD.
AFAIK CEC is an integral component of AEGIS, so the RCN will be getting the capability.
No, CEC is an add on to the combat system. You can certainly have Aegis without CEC (a number of countries do); and you don't have to have Aegis to have CEC. Up to fairly late last year only Australia outside the US had fitted CEC although I think Japan may now have done so. The USN is fitting pretty widely, and the RAN has fitted to the 3 DDGs (and is planning to fit to its T26 so far as I know), but it is definitely a separate part of the combat system.