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Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #922
Although not strictly a procurement or RCAF issue, this article demonstrates what a promise from junior is really worth. It is why I seriously doubt whether the RCAF will actually get 88 new fighters or the RCN will get 15 T26s as long as he is in office.
Nearly three years after Trudeau’s promise, Canadian weapons for Kurds still sit in a Montreal warehouse
Nearly three years after Trudeau’s promise, Canadian weapons for Kurds still sit in a Montreal warehouse
Canada pays $90 million for used Australian jets, first two due in the Spring: Deal to buy used Australian fighter jets finalized, with Canadian Forces set to be flying them by summer
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #924
Yet another article about the RCAF’s diminished capability which suggests this should be a warning to the USAF. Certainly the USAF faces difficult choices as funding becomes more difficult but our problems are strictly incompetence and pollies. The USAF on the other hand has enormous responsibilities which likely will require trimming due to finances.
Is Canada's Air Force Dying?
Is Canada's Air Force Dying?
The US is steadily losing ground against the Chinese and is now more reliant than ever on its allies pulling their weight. I have no doubt the US would want Canada to step up and take a bigger role in NORAD freeing up some of its own resources for overseas deployments.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #926
Indeed, and I still believe the F-22 would have been an easier sale to the Canadian public despite the higher cost. As an air superiority fighter with longer range and dual engines this jet would have been perceived by the Canadian public as protecting Canadian sovereignty and not as a bomb truck, the image leftists here see the F-35 as. From a US perspective, the export of jets to Canada for a NORAD role only would be minimal risk and would free up their assets for foreign deployments with the RCAF taking an increased NORAD presence. This would be more useful than any assistance the RCAF could provide to the US overseas and would be politically positive for both countries. Too bad the export ban made this scenario impossible.
Interestingly it was the Labor Government in Australia that was a proponent of the F-22 and I suspect for much the same reason. Back in 2008 the then minister of defence raised the issue with the US.
Ah but would Kopp, Goon & co believe that kit could fly and turn all at the same time? That is the question.
I know I shall now have to go and undertake the cleansing ceremony for swearing.
They (labor) even reviewed the F-35 purchase, and then, like all sensible nations, reconfirmed it.
Canada would have more credibility if they had purchased UAV in addition to buying the AU hornets. Or P8's. Or Wedgetails. Or something. Even more trainers. Dual engine thing can't be serious. If Australia and the USN can get over it, I think Canada can too.
I find it hard to swallow that Canadians say the F-35 isn't good enough, then proceed to buy 30 year old F-18 hornets. Also choosing between superhornets and F-35's isn't hard, Australia bought both.
t68
Well-Known Member
Well I guess the only saving grace for ex RAAF birds is that with little modification to CA standards they will slot straight into the fleet as FOC birds, unlike Rhino and Lightning will have to work up thro IOC then FOC for all concerned, i.e. pilots thru to ground handling staff and maintainers.
But the stupid thing is they could already have F35 working up as we speak, I wonder if they have anybody at Luke AFB oversee training on the QT
They intend to fly classic hornets until about mid 2030's. If it was just a year or two life extension, fair enough good plan while you are working up a new aircraft and awaiting deliveries, but we are talking decades. They haven't even decided on a replacement but have seemingly excluded all likely contenders. How many dual engine, 5 gen western fighters will be in production post 2035?
Yet this is the same country the lobbied so hard for Australia to do the CBR. Which proved to be both impractical and not needed, yet gave them a huge workshare. If only Canada has invested few $'s to see if it was even needed. Its funny how Canada's huge engineering capability could seem to find that part out.
RAAF Hornet Centre Barrel program completed - Australian Aviation
I hope those 10 CBR air frames are cut up and not sold back to our Canadian friends. Not that it matters, I really think after they get the airframes they will further cut flying hours down past 100hr a year, and just limp along, using the Australian planes for cheap parts.
Yet this is the same country the lobbied so hard for Australia to do the CBR. Which proved to be both impractical and not needed, yet gave them a huge workshare. If only Canada has invested few $'s to see if it was even needed. Its funny how Canada's huge engineering capability could seem to find that part out.
RAAF Hornet Centre Barrel program completed - Australian Aviation
I hope those 10 CBR air frames are cut up and not sold back to our Canadian friends. Not that it matters, I really think after they get the airframes they will further cut flying hours down past 100hr a year, and just limp along, using the Australian planes for cheap parts.
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
Article on CBC describing Canada's procurement problems.
My take is that Canada completely lacks the political will to spend on the military. And the general public supports this position as they do not understand what the military does for Canada nor do they perceive any threat to Canada. Little do they understand that without a military, Canada would be nothing more than the 51st state.
Article also suggest that we will likely be getting the Saab Gripen as the cheapest (not necessarily best) option.
My take is that Canada completely lacks the political will to spend on the military. And the general public supports this position as they do not understand what the military does for Canada nor do they perceive any threat to Canada. Little do they understand that without a military, Canada would be nothing more than the 51st state.
Article also suggest that we will likely be getting the Saab Gripen as the cheapest (not necessarily best) option.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #933
Yes, no political will whatsoever for defence and yes, the Canadian public doesn’t care. As for the acquisition of Saab Gripen, not happening IMO. It would politically easier to give up fast jets altogether rather than waste a pile of money on a jet that has no future 10-20 years. It’s F-35 or nothing.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
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- #934
Here’s the CBC link. With the political pork involved with the CSC program, it is not hard to believe junior will sacrifice the RCAF for the RCN. As for affordability, both would be possible with the political will.
Canada can't afford to buy new frigates and fighters at the same time, U of Calgary paper argues | CBC News
Canada can't afford to buy new frigates and fighters at the same time, U of Calgary paper argues | CBC News
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
Agreed. If something is going to die, it will be the jets. No way any government will kill shipbuilding as there is too much local political capital invested there.
What I struggle with is that as a member of NATO we are supposed to move to 2% of GDP by 2024 (I think), yet the article suggest we will struggle to do 1.1% of GDP.
If we actually did what we committed to do, namely 2% of GDP, we would have no problem funding all our defence requirements.
As for the jets, I think you are thinking too logically. Logic is not involved in military procurement in Canada. It is all politics. It doesn't matter that something will be obsolete or does not meet the requirement, all that matters are the photo ops and how many billions go to Quebec.
My opinion:
If the Cons win in 2019, then they may be able to salvage the F-35. If the Liberals win, they will never go there; too much political face to lose.
So it depends on what happens in the next election. Cons = F-35, Libs = Gripen, Eurofighter or possibly nothing.
No where other than in this particular article have I seen any indication that Canada will not reach 1.4% of GDP by 2024-25. That rate of expenditure fully funds both the fighter and frigate replacement projects. This appears to be another poorly researched paper and nothing else.
Ottawa lays out $62-billion in new military spending over 20 years
Canada to boost military budget by 70% after pressure from US to spend more
On eve of NATO summit, a look at Canada's defence spending, by the numbers - CityNews Toronto
Black Jack Shellac
Active Member
I sure hope you are right!
@Calculus Can you sort your post editing out please. It's a somewhat confusing post.
What aircraft is Canada pursuing?
So no SH, no F-35.. Leaving, possibly, Gripen, Rafael and Eurofighter. Of which only 1 is likely to be in production in 2024. None of which are selected currently.
Its recruiting pilots because many are leaving.
Canadian air force short 275 pilots as attrition outpaces recruitment, training
Increasing flight hours to what? From where they were in 2015?
How are they going to increase flight hours in 2030 with nearly 50 year old fighters?
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...old-fighter-jets-from-australia-in-snub-to-us
Doesn't Canada have like only 16 Hawk trainers as well? Seems like trouble for keeping and training fast jet pilots.
I have to say I was surprised to see a 6% reduction in the flight hours of the CT-114.. Didn't that first take flight January 1960? The RCAF looks to be more of a historic flying museum than a 21st century fighting force.
Canada to buy fleet of 30-year-old fighter jets from Australia in snub to US
So no SH, no F-35.. Leaving, possibly, Gripen, Rafael and Eurofighter. Of which only 1 is likely to be in production in 2024. None of which are selected currently.
Its recruiting pilots because many are leaving.
Canadian air force short 275 pilots as attrition outpaces recruitment, training
Increasing flight hours to what? From where they were in 2015?
Tighter budgets prompt air force to reduce flying times
How are they going to increase flight hours in 2030 with nearly 50 year old fighters?
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...old-fighter-jets-from-australia-in-snub-to-us
I am highly sceptical of Canada getting a new fighter jet squadron fully operational by 2025; particularly given they haven't even selected one. Most pundits say more like 2030 at the earliest.
Doesn't Canada have like only 16 Hawk trainers as well? Seems like trouble for keeping and training fast jet pilots.
I have to say I was surprised to see a 6% reduction in the flight hours of the CT-114.. Didn't that first take flight January 1960? The RCAF looks to be more of a historic flying museum than a 21st century fighting force.