Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
As long as the material state of the ship is good with a fully functioning ship's company, sensors and weapons systems, I couldn't give 2 flying fornications how tiddly the exterior of the ship looks. Fleet it too busy to spend a month alongside keeping everything spick and span. #workingnavy
Its a bit of design compromise. Obviously the Meko frigate design never envisaged having such a massive mast and radar structure in front of its exhaust funnels. Better radar. Dirtier radar.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
As long as the material state of the ship is good with a fully functioning ship's company, sensors and weapons systems, I couldn't give 2 flying fornications how tiddly the exterior of the ship looks. Fleet it too busy to spend a month alongside keeping everything spick and span. #workingnavy
Well I do care and ships are judged by their appearance.
Ships don’t need to spend months alongside to maintain their uppers.
Granted ships companies are smaller but what do you think the Chief Bosun's Mate’s (Buffer)job description is?
He’s there to ensure seamanship evolutions are professional and safe as directed by the Jimmy (XO) but he’s also responsible for the outward appearance of the ship, nothing more and nothing less.
How your ship presents is a reflection on how a “working navy” functions, it’s called pride!
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
And painting areas of masts in the way of funnel gases black as many other Navies do and as was once done, which would be a good first step, takes no longer than painting them grey. That bit is not about requiring more effort rather it is about thinking through potential issues and their solutions in advance.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
UK has some interesting paint jobs.

1606083797824.png

I guess the question comes down to how much do you paint it black, and then won't it stand out and look very odd. Here on the UK Destroyers, they seem to only paint the trailing surface.

I would also assume the black paint would likely absorb more sun light energy. Maybe it can't be painted black?
Maybe black on the tail surface, dark grey at the sides, light grey at the front would be a compromise. I think that could look quite neat.

Also how big our Hull numbers? Were they always so comparatively massive.

I do like the look of the upgrade Anzacs. For a comparatively small ship, they look a lot beefier now. With their massive hot rodded radar, harpoons out the front and the new 5".

I wonder if its worth redesigning the funnels, the ovaloid curved pipes can't be good for radar signature, and I would assume something could be done in terms of flow.
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
UK has some interesting paint jobs.

View attachment 47817

I guess the question comes down to how much do you paint it black, and then won't it stand out and look very odd. Here on the UK Destroyers, they seem to only paint the trailing surface.

I would also assume the black paint would likely absorb more sun light energy. Maybe it can't be painted black?
Maybe black on the tail surface, dark grey at the sides, light grey at the front would be a compromise. I think that could look quite neat.
The leading edges of the CEAFAR “dome” don’t have a problem so maybe the RN solution would be fine but you can see in your pic that everything aft of the exhausts is black.

The RAN previously used the RN pennant number style which was changed to the USN style in 1968/9 IIRC.
 

Takao

The Bunker Group
Nothing new in exhausts staining the masts; evening in the positioning of masts versus exhausts. The Royal Navy just painted everything above the funnel caps black. I know that black is better for reducing heat, so it should do well in our region.

HMCS Regina shows that camouflage works on a modern vessel, do that and paint everything above the funnel line black. It'll blend nicely.
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
Presumably set up for the change of Fleet Commander which occurred onboard recently. Surprised she anchored rather than going to a buoy, but less effort if she was only there for a short time I suppose.
 

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Well I do care and ships are judged by their appearance.
Ships don’t need to spend months alongside to maintain their uppers.
Granted ships companies are smaller but what do you think the Chief Bosun's Mate’s (Buffer)job description is?
He’s there to ensure seamanship evolutions are professional and safe as directed by the Jimmy (XO) but he’s also responsible for the outward appearance of the ship, nothing more and nothing less.
How your ship presents is a reflection on how a “working navy” functions, it’s called pride!

I can see that this is becoming a bit a 'Vegemite' discussion (you'll either love it or hate it !)
However, I picked this up today & it is a 'sore' point for many...

Your Presence Mission is not Sending the Message You Think it is
 

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
UK has some interesting paint jobs.

View attachment 47817

I guess the question comes down to how much do you paint it black, and then won't it stand out and look very odd. Here on the UK Destroyers, they seem to only paint the trailing surface.

I would also assume the black paint would likely absorb more sun light energy. Maybe it can't be painted black?
Maybe black on the tail surface, dark grey at the sides, light grey at the front would be a compromise. I think that could look quite neat.

Also how big our Hull numbers? Were they always so comparatively massive.

I do like the look of the upgrade Anzacs. For a comparatively small ship, they look a lot beefier now. With their massive hot rodded radar, harpoons out the front and the new 5".

I wonder if its worth redesigning the funnels, the ovaloid curved pipes can't be good for radar signature, and I would assume something could be done in terms of flow.
Looking at T45, the RN has followed the 'trailing edge' mantra since the 1970's, as they always had fwd & aft 'funnels' / air intakes ( as aft is predominately main engine exhaust, with fwd being emergency diesel / HVAC Air intake). With tall masts, sailing around means that sea spray / dirt /detritus from the atmosphere coats the surfaces & generally gets 'washed to the aft face, so painting black helps to hide some of this. T45's have been prone to some 'streaking' down the foremast, as there's a flat surface, with a lip, just below the radar at the top of the mast, but the image is obviously a view of the ship out the way out of Portsmouth, not on the way back from a deployment...

You mention the black paint being a heat absorber. Masts are generally full of smaller compartments with lots of equipment associated to Comms & Radars. It usually means a great design demand of getting power supplies & aircon (HVAC)/chilled water up there, as the kit generates a lot of heat in it's own right, but being small spaces, up in the airflow, they do get warm in summer & freezing cold in winter.

SA
 

Takao

The Bunker Group
You mention the black paint being a heat absorber. Masts are generally full of smaller compartments with lots of equipment associated to Comms & Radars. It usually means a great design demand of getting power supplies & aircon (HVAC)/chilled water up there, as the kit generates a lot of heat in it's own right, but being small spaces, up in the airflow, they do get warm in summer & freezing cold in winter.
Painting mast and electrics black is a good thing - because it absorbs heat. The high absorption factor makes black the best colour for transferring heat; meaning that a widget painted black and exposed to airflow will be cooler than painting the box any other colour. It seems counter-intuitive - but it's why Lockheed accepted the additional weight for black paint on the U-2. Painting everything above the funnel black will make the ship's innards cooler (all things being equal).
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Painting mast and electrics black is a good thing - because it absorbs heat. The high absorption factor makes black the best colour for transferring heat; meaning that a widget painted black and exposed to airflow will be cooler than painting the box any other colour. It seems counter-intuitive - but it's why Lockheed accepted the additional weight for black paint on the U-2. Painting everything above the funnel black will make the ship's innards cooler (all things being equal).
I believe that only works with items that you expect to radiate more heat than they will collect from sunlight. So for example a heatsink or exhaust stack painted black will emit more thermal radiation in the IR range than a lighter coloured object.


So a black radar dish may emit more energy than a light coloured one, particularly at night.
But a black radar mast may absorb more energy during the day than a storm grey/ship grey/haze grey one.
Darker coloured ships may be hotter during the day, and colder at night than a light coloured one.

I imagine the anzac radar mast gets a lot of sunlight both directly and reflected. Plus surrounded in swirling exhausts. Probably already tight due to top weight demands. Perhaps one of the reasons not to paint it.
 
Top