Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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SteveR

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The Attack class is getting the Thales UK flank sonar:

If this is true it probably means the latest variant of the Type 2076 as fitted to the RN Astute class - by reputation the best submarine sonar out there. I recall the Astute went over to the US for trials about 8-9 years ago and had detection of Virginia before the latter had detection of the Astute.

I also wonder if Thales UK was competing with Thales France for the Attack sonar- the latter makes the SSN Suffren's flank array and would have had lower risk to install on the hull of the derivative Australian SSK.

On the other hand the Type 2076 SSN signal processing shares quite a lot with the Type 2087 sonar to be installed on the RN Type 26 Glasgow and RAN Hunter class - see third section in link below:

 

south

Well-Known Member
No we don't. And even if we did, good luck finding any government willing to stump up the billions it would cost to build and maintain. So in the meantime the RAN will continue to rely on force protection and it's associated support systems.
I’m a little sceptical about the validity of underground shelters in the current era. It’s always seemed to me that it concentrates your forces around a constrained number of entry/exit points - such that you can shut them down in a single strike. Sure the stuff inside may be safe, but if you can’t get it outside it’s not much use. Further if the bad guys can get a weapon inside, the blast is concentrated significantly, increasing effects.

Dispersal and mobility, overhead cover from observation and decoys etc seem to be the way, combined with hopefully a more robust and effective active defence seem to be the way, certainly for RAAF and Army (who obviously have smaller units, easier to hide).
 

spoz

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I know it has become something of a norm for warships to fly courtesy flags, but it is something which is really contrary to customary international law as warships, being sovereign territory and having immunity from the laws of coastal states, are required to display only their colours, not those of other countries unless as a ruse de guerre or firing a salute. That’s in contrast to merships who are subject to the laws of the coastal state, that subjugation being indicated and symbolised by the flying of the flag of that state.
Nice pic, though.
 

Rob c

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I would add to that, it was my understanding that in the past that the national/naval ensigns were only flown from the main or fore mast as battle flags or at least that was the RN convention.
 

Rob c

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Flown from the foremast when at sea, always (Sea Ensign)
I stand corrected, was the battle ensign flow from the main mast, or have conventions changed over time? I have seen photos of HMS Achilles flying the NZ flag from her foremast at the battle of the River Plate which was hoisted after Graft Spee was sighted .
 
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ASSAIL

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I stand corrected, was the battle ensign flow from the main mast, or have conventions changed over time? I have seen photos of HMS Achilles flying the NZ flag from her foremast at the battle of the River Plate which was hoisted after Graft Spee was sighted .
I’m unaware of the conventions for “Battle” Ensigns.
The modern practice of flying a large ensign at the foremast during exercises did not occur during my time 1965-1981.
I assume the practice was developed during the days where visual signalling/identification was paramount and the new practice is simply, well, flag waving.
I no longer have my Vol 2 of ABR 67 (Seamanship Manual) which covers ceremonial but I can’t remember seeing “Battle Ensigns” referred to in there either?
 

spoz

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That was the way both the RAN and the NZ division/RNZN did it when we used the RN ensign. If we did it now, unlikely as that may be, we would fly our own ensigns from as many masts as available. The current “fly a gigantic ensign for fotexs” started with the USN, of course
 

aussienscale

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I’m unaware of the conventions for “Battle” Ensigns.
The modern practice of flying a large ensign at the foremast during exercises did not occur during my time 1965-1981.
I assume the practice was developed during the days where visual signalling/identification was paramount and the new practice is simply, well, flag waving.
I no longer have my Vol 2 of ABR 67 (Seamanship Manual) which covers ceremonial but I can’t remember seeing “Battle Ensigns” referred to in there either?
Has been a few years (25+) but IIRC ABR 1834 Vol III will have all the relevant info if you can find a copy ? or RANCP 5 maybe ?

Cheers
 

DDG38

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This is the first decent official shot of NUSHIP Supply I've seen. Expect to see her in the world's best harbour early next year. ;) "Marine Technicians Able Seamen Greg Hallet, Cassandra Bullock, Mason Turner, Cody Martin, Yassi Coban and Leading Seaman Morse Stanton in front of NUSHIP Supply at Fleet Base West, Western Australia." Image Source: ADF Image Library link
20201203ran8112562_019edit.jpg
 

old faithful

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Guys does this look like political posturing by China? Will tie up some of our assets policing the areas for sure.
 
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cdxbow

Well-Known Member

Guys does this look like political posturing by China? Will tie up some of our assets policing the areas for sure.
I think there will be considerable consternation in Canberra and a counter proposal developed. Absolute disaster if it goes ahead.
 

ngatimozart

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Guys does this look like political posturing by China? Will tie up some of our assets policing the areas for sure.
It's not just the immediate area around Daru, but it means that the PRC can use it to process fish from PRC boats fishing further afield. Solomon Islands right down through Polynesia, plus 1 yard outside the Australian EEZ. They will also sneak inside your EEZ if they get half the chance.

The other prize that they are after is the anchorage at Manus and they have a good chance of getting it too. One more prize would be the copper mine on Bougainville Island. The new independent nation there will need a source of funds.

I believe that both Australia and NZ have left it to late now to do anything wrt PNG because of institutional sloth and arrogance.
I think there will be considerable consternation in Canberra and a counter proposal developed. Absolute disaster if it goes ahead.
To late for that now. That horse has bolted.

You are right, there is going to be consternation in Canberra, but they've only got themselves to blame. Same with Wellington. I will have to find the link,* but since the PRC built their fish processing plant in Uruguay, it processes the catch of a fleet of 500 PRC fishing boats that take everything from the seafloor up, right through the water column. They don't care one iota about the local population and in Africa they have destroyed fish stocks so much that locals dependant upon fish as a major source of protein are in very dire straits. The Torres Islanders are going to be hit hard once the PRC fishing crews get up and running.

As a matter of interest, is there a good population of clams, especially giant clams in the Daru - Torres Island area? If so the PRC will definitely be after those.

*EDIT 10/12/20: ADD SOURCE. China’s Monster Fishing Fleet Makes Other Countries Go Hungry (foreignpolicy.com)
And another one regarding China's efforts in the South Pacific China's Belt & Road Initiative In The Pacific Islands - Silk Road Briefing
 
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ASSAIL

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It's not just the immediate area around Daru, but it means that the PRC can use it to process fish from PRC boats fishing further afield. Solomon Islands right down through Polynesia, plus 1 yard outside the Australian EEZ. They will also sneak inside your EEZ if they get half the chance.

The other prize that they are after is the anchorage at Manus and they have a good chance of getting it too. One more prize would be the copper mine on Bougainville Island. The new independent nation there will need a source of funds.

I believe that both Australia and NZ have left it to late now to do anything wrt PNG because of institutional sloth and arrogance.
“Institutional sloth” is not a term I would apply to Australia’s relationship with PNG.
Governments of all persuasions have regarded PNG a major strategic area of interest both politically and militarily.
Australia has provided around $600m in aid and direct grants annually to our northern neighbour.
PNG was the first country to be visited by PM Morrison on his ascension to the office.
The people to people relationships between our two nations are both many and deep and I believe most Australians consider PNG as a close but “different” relative.

Do I think we could do more? Sure, but we are their most generous donor and they will be unlikely to risk the relationship

DFAT has produced a nice summary of the relationship as has the PNG High Commission and both are worthy of detailed inspection

Relationship with Australia – High Commission of the Independent State of Papua New Guinea

Papua New Guinea country brief
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
I don't know what it's like nowadays, but I recall a colleague going to work in PNG on a three year contract, & quitting early. He & his wife found Port Moresby scary, & social life was crap. They found it very difficult to interact with locals, because relations between expats & locals were very poor. He said he wasn't surprised, because in his eyes, the (mainly Australian) expats almost all acted as if it was still a colony & they were the masters, & the locals hated it. It was very hard to get past the hostility towards & resentment of expats by locals.

I hope it's improved in the last 30 years, but I found it shocking back then. He reckoned it was self-selecting: more open-minded expats didn't stay, because of the toxic atmosphere.

That sort of atmosphere - or even the memory of it - could make locals favour non-Australians in deals. I can imagine senior officials who worked with Australians like those my ex-colleague described when they were young still having a bias against Australians.
 
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