Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[seaspear]

Finding answer to my own question re extended range .
In the UKDJ 5/1/2018 George Allison reports that B.A.E and Leonardo have developed an extended range ammunition that could be used on the type 26 mark 4 gun tripling its present range Im not sure though is if this intended for the R.A.N procurement

 

[hauritz]

Finding answer to my own question re extended range .
In the UKDJ 5/1/2018 George Allison reports that B.A.E and Leonardo have developed an extended range ammunition that could be used on the type 26 mark 4 gun tripling its present range Im not sure though is if this intended for the R.A.N procurement

I am not even sure that a 5 inch gun without extended range ammunition would even be relevant in this day and age.

 

[ASSAIL]

NUSHIP Brisbane provisionally accepted from the AWD Alliance by the Commonwealth at 1000 (CST) this morning. Much media in attendance, so likely stories on tv news etc later.

Navy Daily article
Royal Australian Navy

 

[spoz]

The bloke with the bell rope has made the bell rope for every major RAN surface unit since Melbourne in 1990. He’s an ex WOUC and does it for love from what I recall.

 

[oldsig127]

US$17.5mil each. A lot more than I expected, thats for sure.

What's the definition of "each" though?

The Government of Finland has requested a possible sale of four (4) Mk 41 Baseline VII Strike-Length Vertical Launching Systems. Also included are spares, handling equipment, test equipment, operator manuals and technical documentation, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, training, technical, and logistical support services, and other related elements of logistical support. The estimated total case value is $70 million.

So not $17.5M each per launch system, but $70M for four systems and all that ancillary equipment and services.

AND unless I've missed something, we don't know what comprises even *one* launch system . Is it a single module (eight cell) or multi-module? How many modules? So what would you expect it to cost then, not having much above no clue at all about what they're buying?

oldsig

 

[Todjaeger]

What's the definition of "each" though?



So not $17.5M each per launch system, but $70M for four systems and all that ancillary equipment and services.

AND unless I've missed something, we don't know what comprises even *one* launch system . Is it a single module (eight cell) or multi-module? How many modules? So what would you expect it to cost then, not having much above no clue at all about what they're buying?

oldsig

This would be a guess on my part, but I suspect these would be 8-cell Mk 41 VLS for Finland's Squadron 2020 multi-role corvettes. Aside from the fact that the vessels are to be corvette-sized, the same FMS request also included a request for 68 RIM-162 ESSM. Given that an 8-cell Mk 41 VLS can be quad-packed to hold 32 ESSM, and that the project is for a total of four vessels, it seems unlike that Finland would opt for more VLS cells per vessel. As it is, a pair of the corvettes would represent almost the entire currently requested stock of ESSM.

 

[oldsig127]

This would be a guess on my part, but I suspect these would be 8-cell Mk 41 VLS for Finland's Squadron 2020 multi-role corvettes. Aside from the fact that the vessels are to be corvette-sized, the same FMS request also included a request for 68 RIM-162 ESSM. Given that an 8-cell Mk 41 VLS can be quad-packed to hold 32 ESSM, and that the project is for a total of four vessels, it seems unlike that Finland would opt for more VLS cells per vessel. As it is, a pair of the corvettes would represent almost the entire currently requested stock of ESSM.

Yes, an informed guess, but not really the point I was making, which was that just dividing the total price by four without knowing exactly what was included doesn't give a transferable cost for one "launch system" and declaring it expensive on that basis is nonsensical.

oldsig

 

[beegee]

As a response to the costs of the Mk41 VLS:

Finland – Mk 41 Vertical Launching Systems | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

I'm impressed that they're equipping such small vessels with strike length VLS. They could have been conservative and got tactical length, saving weight, space and money, while still being able to fire ESSM. But that's a forward thinking decision which gives them the option of acquiring any mk41 compatible system in the future.

 

[beegee]

This would be a guess on my part, but I suspect these would be 8-cell Mk 41 VLS for Finland's Squadron 2020 multi-role corvettes.

No guess necessary, it's stated in the release and you are correct.

Finland intends to use the vertical launching systems on four new construction corvettes that will make up the Finnish Navy's Squadron 2020.

 

[ngatimozart]

No guess necessary, it's stated in the release and you are correct.

That's a guess on your part that it's the eight cell system. The only thing that the release specifically states is that the systems are going on the new corvettes.

 

[t68]

That's a guess on your part that it's the eight cell system. The only thing that the release specifically states is that the systems are going on the new corvettes.

Finland – Mk 41 Vertical Launching Systems | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency


I haven't heard of MK41 being less than 8 cells (2 rows of 4).
The notice gives all the clues,

The Government of Finland has requested a possible sale of four (4) Mk 41 Baseline VII Strike-Length Vertical Launching Systems

Finland intends to use the vertical launching systems on four new construction corvettes that will make up the Finnish Navy's Squadron 2020

I highly doubt that they would have 2x hulls with 16 cells and 2x with none

 

[beegee]

That's a guess on your part that it's the eight cell system. The only thing that the release specifically states is that the systems are going on the new corvettes.

Yeah, I was only referring to the target platform part, not the number of cells part. I should have made that clear in my reply, sorry.

 

[ngatimozart]

I haven't heard of MK41 being less than 8 cells (2 rows of 4).

Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it can't be so. They are commonly seen in 8 cell configurations because that is how the USN originally installed them, but AFAIK, there isn't any technical reason preventing them from being fitted in 4 cell configurations.

 

[Raven22]

Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it can't be so. They are commonly seen in 8 cell configurations because that is how the USN originally installed them, but AFAIK, there isn't any technical reason preventing them from being fitted in 4 cell configurations.

The 8 cell module used in the Mk41 uses a bunch of common systems like exhausts, power supply and safety systems. It is a self contained system - you can’t have less than an 8 cell module otherwise it won’t have all the features it needs to operate. You could redesign the system into smaller than 8 cell modules, but then it won’t be a Mk41 anymore.

 

[Stampede]

The 8 cell module used in the Mk41 uses a bunch of common systems like exhausts, power supply and safety systems. It is a self contained system - you can’t have less than an 8 cell module otherwise it won’t have all the features it needs to operate. You could redesign the system into smaller than 8 cell modules, but then it won’t be a Mk41 anymore.

If I understand correctly, if you want a different ESSM load out you would opt for the MK 56 GMVLS from Raytheon.

http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Weapons/Mk56_VLS.pdf.

This would satisfy the SAM defence needs of smaller vessels.

Regards S

 

[ngatimozart]

If I understand correctly, if you want a different ESSM load out you would opt for the MK 56 GMVLS from Raytheon.

http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Weapons/Mk56_VLS.pdf.

This would satisfy the SAM defence needs of smaller vessels.

Regards S

AFAIK the Mk-56 VLS is no longer manufactured, think it was two or three years ago that this happened. I believe that the MK-41 Self Defence or the new ExLS are now used in its stead.

 

[ngatimozart]

The 8 cell module used in the Mk41 uses a bunch of common systems like exhausts, power supply and safety systems. It is a self contained system - you can’t have less than an 8 cell module otherwise it won’t have all the features it needs to operate. You could redesign the system into smaller than 8 cell modules, but then it won’t be a Mk41 anymore.

Thanks Raven, I stand corrected.

 

[aussienscale]

AFAIK the Mk-56 VLS is no longer manufactured, think it was two or three years ago that this happened. I believe that the MK-41 Self Defence or the new ExLS are now used in its stead.

Mk56 ? or are you confusing with the Mk57 as used on the Zumwalt Destroyers ?

http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Weapons/Mk57_VLS.pdf

As opposed to the Mk56

http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Weapons/Mk56_VLS.pdf

 

[Stampede]

AFAIK the Mk-56 VLS is no longer manufactured, think it was two or three years ago that this happened. I believe that the MK-41 Self Defence or the new ExLS are now used in its stead.

Thanks Ngatimaozart

Was unaware of that development.
I can still see the need for a small ESSM launcher.


Regards S

 

[ngatimozart]

Mk56 ? or are you confusing with the Mk57 as used on the Zumwalt Destroyers ?

http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Weapons/Mk57_VLS.pdf

As opposed to the Mk56

http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Weapons/Mk56_VLS.pdf

No am not confused about it. The Alternate wars post is of a Raytheon brochure from 2007. I am sure that I read it somewhere, because it has stuck in my mind. I'll try and find the reference.