Unfortunately development of the VL RAM Blk 2 was cancelled (PAM also). It's a pity because it could be quin packed in a single ExLS cell. Apparently there were issues with the reaction time of firing a point defence missile from VLS. As far as I know the only systems tested so far from ExLS are Sea Ceptor and Nulka.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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Flexson
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Success is set to decommission 30 June 19. But hey Tobruk was supposed to be decommissioned end of 2014 and ended up being 31 July 15 and Newcastle was suppose to decommission this year and Melbourne next year but now Newcastle will be 29 June 19 and Melbourne 28 September 19 so these things can easily change.
Also they are looking at standing up the first crew for Supply around Jan 2020.
Thanks Flexson for the update.
I guess transitioning from one platform to another is a mixture of advanced planning and some prudent pragmatics as the change over gets close.
Looking forward to seeing the new ships in service.
Regards S
Not unless more money can be found.
I would suggest that there could be some other ideas that Australia could consider. One would be to purchase a number of F-35Bs as part replacement for the Super Hornets. While these aircraft could not be operated off our two LPDs they could be operated off USN amphibs and perhaps even the UK Carriers when they are in this region. This would at least give Australian pilots and crews the opportunity of training in carrier operations just in case the day should come when we want to get back into the carrier game ourselves. Also it would be a useful contribution to our allies.
Another approach could be to operate UAVs from our amphibs. I see this as the way that Aircraft carriers operations will eventually evolve anyway.
We need to get the naming right folks ... they are LHD's not LPD's. I am not being picky here as the difference is significant. The other issue is the LHD could operate the F-35B as far as the evidence suggest, however, it comes down to how Australia intends to operate and support these vessels as well as being willing to commit to the F-35B.
If it is not within our operational structure then it willnto heppen ... however, the retention of the ski jump suggests the GoA may have hedged it bets just in case.
Redlands18
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A lot of People want Australia operating F-35Bs off the Canberra's, yes it would look ultra cool. But under what circumstances would Australia do so? History suggests that the LHDs would be operationally deployed under 2 Scenerios.
1/ A stalbiisation of one of the small Pacific nations that got into serious trouble. F-35s would be a bit of a overkill. More Helos would be far more useful.
2/ An Iraq 2003 type scenerio where 1/2 dozen F-35Bs would not make the slightest bit of difference and the overall Commander would find better ways to use the LHDs then as defacto Aircraft Carriers.
When in History would Australia have operated Fixed Wing assets off LHDs?
1/ A stalbiisation of one of the small Pacific nations that got into serious trouble. F-35s would be a bit of a overkill. More Helos would be far more useful.
2/ An Iraq 2003 type scenerio where 1/2 dozen F-35Bs would not make the slightest bit of difference and the overall Commander would find better ways to use the LHDs then as defacto Aircraft Carriers.
When in History would Australia have operated Fixed Wing assets off LHDs?
t68
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Using that analogy what Australia could provide the US is a pin prick 5/6000 troops at most, then why do we deploy army? The US deployed a couple hundred Thousand the UK 40/50000
Redlands18
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And so will F-35s operating off US .Carriers or Land Bases but i can't for the life of me think of any situation that Australia would deploy the LHDs under Combat situations without far more AD capability then 6 F-35s can provide
I understand the capability that F-35s off the LHDs(after some modification) would bring but it simply would not be enough to be useful to the operational Commander
Redlands18
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Who are you going to send 5/6000 troops overseas against unless it is part of a major coalition? There is only one Country in our region with anything resembling a decent size Military(Indonesia) and they have far to big an Army for Australia to fight them on their soil everyone else is simply out of Australia's reach.
Yes Australia's Army is pretty small but by 2030 it is going to be very well equiped and as always very well trained and motivated. And what if the US can only deploy 20-30,000 troops/Marines in this scenerio and the UK only 5-10,000 then the 5-6000 looks a lot better.
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This has been discussed at length notnig the situational awareness the F35 (and model) can bring if empolyed in concert with CEC equiped ships. It could be decisive. The advantage of the F35B (even a small number) is this support is organic when deployed further afeild and nto and the end of tanking pipeline after an extended flight time.
Again it all depends on the operational scenario the GoA and three services see the LHD being employed.
There is a plethora of scenarios which can be imagined to support the acquisition of F35Bs for the RAN but any acquisition of capability must be constrained by the governments stated strategic policy detailed in the DWP 2016 and clearly laid down in the Executive Summary
http://www.defence.gov.au/WhitePaper/Docs/2016-Defence-White-Paper.pdf
In short Australia has three laid down Defence Interests each coupled with a Defence Objective.
The first two are basic; 1provide a secure and resilient Oz, deter, deny, defeat any attempts etc, 2 secure our nearer region, Maritime SE Asia and the S Pacific, secure the governments of PNG, Timor-L Este and the Pacific Island countries, and,
3 and this is the most relevant to any F35B conversation, provide meaningful contributions to global responses to address threats to the rules based order which threaten Australia and work closely with the US and others.
The nearest scenario under which we may think about an organic fast jet capability is the last but I can’t see any reason how a “meaningful” contribution could be provided if we are working closely with the US or others.
If our government changes these strategic objectives to something quite different which may include unilateral power projection then maybe a case for the capability could be made but not now.
http://www.defence.gov.au/WhitePaper/Docs/2016-Defence-White-Paper.pdf
In short Australia has three laid down Defence Interests each coupled with a Defence Objective.
The first two are basic; 1provide a secure and resilient Oz, deter, deny, defeat any attempts etc, 2 secure our nearer region, Maritime SE Asia and the S Pacific, secure the governments of PNG, Timor-L Este and the Pacific Island countries, and,
3 and this is the most relevant to any F35B conversation, provide meaningful contributions to global responses to address threats to the rules based order which threaten Australia and work closely with the US and others.
The nearest scenario under which we may think about an organic fast jet capability is the last but I can’t see any reason how a “meaningful” contribution could be provided if we are working closely with the US or others.
If our government changes these strategic objectives to something quite different which may include unilateral power projection then maybe a case for the capability could be made but not now.
The possibility of the ADF acquiring and operating the F-35B off the Canberra Class LHD has been debated throughout this thread ad nauseum. I would strongly suggest people read back through the this thread before regurgitating the whole argument again. Also to reinforce alexsa's point please get the nomenclature correct, because mistakes in this lead to misunderstandings.
t68
Well-Known Member
It was you who said what is point of 6x 35B going to do in an scenario using Iraq 2003. we sent 2000 and a majority was RAN/RAAF to that event the US 200k and UK 40K we sent 1% did the US really need our contribution of cause not was it welcome yep. id imagine if we only had 6 F35 deployed somewhere in a hot environment I'm quite sure if they support ADF US, UK or whoever they wont really give a rats arse who's rondel is on the side as long as they got that support. so yes 6x aircraft can make a difference to someone.
Agree, after all how many airframes did we deploy for Op Okra ? pretty sure that was appreciated too !
Once again the rhetoric has evolved into a singular debate, the F-35B in RAAF service would have many roles and uses, not just off LHD's or a purpose built Stovl carrier. To have any meaningful number of airframes they would not just be for RAN use.
Cheers
Terminology - absolutely agree. It is significant. E.g. if they were LPDs the F-35 discussion couldn't even happen.
Removing the ski jump would have cost money & delayed construction, because it would have meant some redesign. It's not like the add-on ski jumps of the Invincible class, which were designed without one. Leaving it on had negligible adverse consequences, & as you say, it's there just in case, but that doesn't mean there was or is any intention to use it.
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