Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

OldTex

Well-Known Member
With its large deck, davits, stern launch and recovery sytem it may also end up serving as a useful drone mothership.
That was one of the ideas with the Arafura class acting as the basis for the replacement of the MCM and Hydrographic vessels. Those MWVs do still need to be replaced, possibly with autonomous systems but supported by suitable motherships.
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
From Pat Conroys socials, Pilbara looks like it’s pretty far along, think it will definitely be commissioned next year.
Never saw Eyre enter the water until this year although it was “launched in November 2023”, it didn’t spend much time at the wharf before fit out.
Sea trials were completed in just under 1 month. (Late June - Late July)
I was at Eyre’s launch; and onboard her many times alongside over the next months. She was taken out for a bottom clean, as is standard procedure before sea trials because of the amount of growth which occurs in the warm, slightly brackish water of the Port River; but she was there alright.

What takes time after launch is not only things like finishing cable pulls and pipe runs; it’s equipment set to work and individual systems grooming then integrated testing. And also getting those who have to approve the ship as ready to go to sea to agree. I hope I’m wrong, but after 40 years in the business I won’t be counting on it. Sea trials for Hobart also took about a month, btw; by the time you get to that point most things had better be sorted.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
That was one of the ideas with the Arafura class acting as the basis for the replacement of the MCM and Hydrographic vessels. Those MWVs do still need to be replaced, possibly with autonomous systems but supported by suitable motherships.
Those are roles Japan is planning to use the Mogami in.

If you look at the RANs Sloops, Corvettes and Frigates from the 30s and 40s it can be seen that they had a lot in common with the proposed GP frigates.
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Those are roles Japan is planning to use the Mogami in.

If you look at the RANs Sloops, Corvettes and Frigates from the 30s and 40s it can be seen that they had a lot in common with the proposed GP frigates.
I'm thinking there is still going to be a workload for mine hunting above what the GPF can do. It's still a single ship with lots of demands on its use, it can only be in one place at a time, and we will not have a full fleet until the early 40s. Even then its only 11 against the Japanese 22.

Mine hunting is heavily drone centric these days, so it can be done from a variety of platforms. I'm wondering if an outcome is broader application of say the Mogami mine hunting system (sets assume that is the GPF selection for the sake of the argument), used on the Mogami but also other vessels.

The GPFs do the higher threat areas, with the other vessels keeping protected shipping lanes and harbours clear.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Mine hunting is exactly the sort of capability that could be served by a centre of excellence and school, with permanently outfitted vessels for training, supported by deployable elements and distributed reserve elements.

Each major port could have a reserve MCM capability with shore deployed ROVs and more autonomous options, as well as a deployable capability suitable for GPFs, OPVs and craft of opportunity.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Mine hunting is exactly the sort of capability that could be served by a centre of excellence and school, with permanently outfitted vessels for training, supported by deployable elements and distributed reserve elements.

Each major port could have a reserve MCM capability with shore deployed ROVs and more autonomous options, as well as a deployable capability suitable for GPFs, OPVs and craft of opportunity.
In wartime a lot requirement for local inshore work. Coast,ports and harbours.
For that you need vessel numbers.
Good basic work hirses that are flexible and adaptable.

The majors will always fall short in hull numbers.

Like the Bathurst class in World War II, there is a need for the unsexy stuff to do the boring.

Cheers S
 

Bob53

Well-Known Member
That is a somewhat sobering read regarding the volume of top end missiles used in that conflict.

That goes to the heart of the problem with the desire to make a decision on a long range anti missile system for Australia. For the next decade the launchers and missiles we would likely look at (Arrow, THAAD, patroit SM3) are simply unavailable for any money.

People can jump up and down and say we need to prioritise this investment, but it is just not going to happen. Not because we won't/can't stump up the funding, but because the factories are not making enough and won't for a very long time.

I would suggest that at the moment a THAAD battery (and we would need several) would be harder to get our hands on than a Virginia submarine.

The article also seems to indicate that the SM3 were less effective than they should have been. I'm wondering if that is because the earlier versions were used rather than the block 2B.
Alternatively Australia builds ballistic missiles ourselves and flip the equation on any attacker. I read the article. The volume of missiles being chewed up in what is was a limited war is ridiculous.
 

iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
Alternatively Australia builds ballistic missiles ourselves and flip the equation on any attacker. I read the article. The volume of missiles being chewed up in what is was a limited war is ridiculous.
We need a local high turn out production line for SSM, ASM and AAM asap. Sorry about my layman's abbreviations, but you get my drift. We need to be pumping them out like sausages at the local butcher's if we are going to survive any conflict. Run out of ammo and kiss your **** goodbye.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
We need a local high turn out production line for SSM, ASM and AAM asap. Sorry about my layman's abbreviations, but you get my drift. We need to be pumping them out like sausages at the local butcher's if we are going to survive any conflict. Run out of ammo and kiss your **** goodbye.
Absolutely. The big difference between now and WW2 is that back then the USA wasn’t immediately involved. It had time to ramp up its production and became the major weapon supplier for the allies before it became directly involved itself.

Australia also had a period of grace before we became involved in the Pacific war.

The next war won’t be like that. The Chinese have a massive advantage in terms of manufacturing and the US will be flat out producing enough weapons for itself.

Really we need to have a completely sovereign capability to produce our own weapons.
 

iambuzzard

Well-Known Member
Absolutely. The big difference between now and WW2 is that back then the USA wasn’t immediately involved. It had time to ramp up its production and became the major weapon supplier for the allies before it became directly involved itself.

Australia also had a period of grace before we became involved in the Pacific war.

The next war won’t be like that. The Chinese have a massive advantage in terms of manufacturing and the US will be flat out producing enough weapons for itself.

Really we need to have a completely sovereign capability to produce our own weapons.
Correct. And we need the equipment and personnel to fire and man them as soon as possible. This is not pie in the sky stuff that the politicians can fob off. Something will definitely happen unless we convince a potential adversary that they will get more than a bloody nose if they try.
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
How would the Aster family of anti ballistic missiles compare to the sm3s and sixes available even the ID.F have some different missiles again for their Iron domes?
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Aster - not well. In fact, at present, not really in the game although they would like to be.

Iron Dome - good for short range interceptions, not into mid course (ie SM3 stuff).

David’s Sling (Stunner) - more capable but still not up to SM3. More like PAC 3.

Arrow 3. Competent.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Correct. And we need the equipment and personnel to fire and man them as soon as possible. This is not pie in the sky stuff that the politicians can fob off. Something will definitely happen unless we convince a potential adversary that they will get more than a bloody nose if they try.
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if it would be quicker to train operators from scratch then it would take to procure equipment.

Better to procure the equipment and put it into storage, even if only a minimum viable amount is in service to form a cadre for expansion.

Or even more simply, focus on what is required to ‘build’ the equipment. And try to where possible have individual pieces of equipment have as many common components as possible, specifically in terms of semi-conductors.

If we don’t have it already, we need some sort of on shore semi-conductor production capacity. It doesn’t have to be the latest and greatest, just has to be ‘good enough’.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if it would be quicker to train operators from scratch then it would take to procure equipment.

Better to procure the equipment and put it into storage, even if only a minimum viable amount is in service to form a cadre for expansion.

Or even more simply, focus on what is required to ‘build’ the equipment. And try to where possible have individual pieces of equipment have as many common components as possible, specifically in terms of semi-conductors.

If we don’t have it already, we need some sort of on shore semi-conductor production capacity. It doesn’t have to be the latest and greatest, just has to be ‘good enough’.
Having our own industries capable of building weapons is pointless if we don't have a secure supply line for crucial components such as semiconductors.

Back in 2022 there was a national initiative called "semiconductor moonshot" aimed at building a domestic semiconductor manufacturing capability.

How much progress has been made? Not sure. Problem is we are building from a very low base.
 
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