Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[Stampede]

Not really. Until selections have been announced and contracts signed things are still very much up in the air. Take the first three vessels to be built in Australia for instance. If these vessels are to be built in a yard in WA, it is distinctly possible that the yard might not be ready to do so given what has been reported as going on with the landing craft builds. If this ends up pushing back the start of Australian builds by ~two years AND the Australian builds are to be of the same spec as the overseas builds (also meaning sourcing and importing components from overseas) then it is possible some of the components might not be available if there is a two year delay in the start of Australian construction.

Build numbers and time frame are an unknown at this stage……No one knows. Too many variables at play.

2032 is the magic year
This year we are scheduled to commission the first of the Hunter Class.
So what does our fleet look like in 2032
One Hunter
Three Hobarts
Three Anzacs (assuming a 28 year life like HMAS Anzac )
Total. Seven ships.

Plus. X number of tier two frigates

Regards of where they are built, what does X look like.

Is this government or the next truly committed to building up the fleet, because without some bloody magic, this is looking like a very old and depleted maritime option.

The magic if we are serious is increased tier 2 numbers built over seas very very quickly.

Come the early / mid 30s
The Hunters will most likely be late, plus in limited numbers.
ANZACs will be old, small, knackered and increasingly irrelevant.
Hobarts fine

Tier two on time oz build highly unlikely.
Just too ambitious in conjunction with other projects

So a fleet of ten ships today
Down to nine next year then down to eight around 28/29

2032 we may have one SSN with training wheels.

Survey,MCM,supply sea lift all have unfulfilled needs in this time frame as well.

Navy needs to be an ambassador for itself!
I don’t think government truly realises how bad it looks both now and in the future

Trust some Magic in the detail for the SEA3000 winner later this year.


Sadly S

 

[SammyC]

DARPA Releases First Official Video of NOMARS USX-1 Defiant USV - Naval News

This is getting close to what we should be considering for our future drone sea platform. A fully autonomous, vessel with no human systems at all. And a flat tray for a range of payloads. Its 60 metres long and weighs 250 tonnes without a payload, so patrol boat sized.

To the best of my knowledge, this is its first public sail.

This aligns with what the Americans would call the MOSV. It would hold a decent sized ISR package in its current configuration. A slightly larger capacity version could hold a couple of adaptable launchers, holding say 8 strike length cells. A frigate could sail with half a dozen of these or more.

I have a feeling this technology will leapfrog the LOCSV approach we have been mucking around with.

 

[spoz]

It’s a technology demonstrator; but with that size and hull shape I hope they are not actually planning to send it to the Aleutians - they might never see it again. OK in Puget Sound or wherever the vision is from.

Presume the year at sea implies electric drive with solar, wind and/or possibly wave power generation. If so, the generation density available would seem likely to limit speed (you wouldn’t want to run out of power and lie ahull with that) which probably explains the need for the extremely fine shape. Bit of a chicken and an egg problem.

 

[Bob53]

Do you really think that an order for 11 will happen?
I would hope so, but I am thinking it will be reduced to 9, at best.

I suspect that will happen mainly on financial grounds. Our governments at every level are addicted to spending. Only so many tax increases are possible. Defence is about the only thing that the gov can cut without street marches. We are under pressure to increase defence spending but I suspect a way will be found to put lipstick on anything we do to make it look like we are increasing until things cool down from the US.

 

[StevoJH]

I suspect that will happen mainly on financial grounds. Our governments at every level are addicted to spending. Only so many tax increases are possible. Defence is about the only thing that the gov can cut without street marches. We are under pressure to increase defence spending but I suspect a way will be found to put lipstick on anything we do to make it look like we are increasing until things cool down from the US.

What tax increase? When was the last time taxes went up rather than down?

The introduction of the GST maybe?

 

[Morgo]

What tax increase? When was the last time taxes went up rather than down?

The introduction of the GST maybe?

Agreed. Plenty of untaxed / lightly tax wealth compared to international peers. Lots of lightly taxed resources as well.

Plenty of wasteful spending too to be fair.

No shortage of scope to afford the ADF we need if the will is there (which it’s not unfortunately).

 

[GregorZ]

Full IP of Mogami might allow us to strip it down and design it into 32+ cell optionally crewed ships

 

[hauritz]

DARPA Releases First Official Video of NOMARS USX-1 Defiant USV - Naval News

This is getting close to what we should be considering for our future drone sea platform. A fully autonomous, vessel with no human systems at all. And a flat tray for a range of payloads. Its 60 metres long and weighs 250 tonnes without a payload, so patrol boat sized.

To the best of my knowledge, this is its first public sail.

This aligns with what the Americans would call the MOSV. It would hold a decent sized ISR package in its current configuration. A slightly larger capacity version could hold a couple of adaptable launchers, holding say 8 strike length cells. A frigate could sail with half a dozen of these or more.

I have a feeling this technology will leapfrog the LOCSV approach we have been mucking around with.

Last I heard the USN were merging the LUSV and MUSV into something they call the FUSV (Future Uncrewed Surface Vessel). Apparently the LUSV is too big and complex. The FUSV will be just big enough to accommodate a couple of shipping containers. Got to admit NOMARS does look like it will fit that bill.

Any way you look at it it seems unlikely that Australia will be partnering the US in building LOCSVs.

To my eye the NOMARS looks a better option anyway. They are small and cheap enough to be mass produced which is what we should be looking at. I can see AUSTAL knocking these things out between patrol boat orders. Probably use them for just about anything you can fit in a shipping container.

 

[old faithful]

What tax increase? When was the last time taxes went up rather than down?

The introduction of the GST maybe?

I don't think you understand how the GST works/worked.
Before the GST was introduced, sales tax on things like sporting goods and electrical appliances was 21.5%, the GST reduced that to 10%.
Food items had no sales tax, so increased from zero to 10%.....anyway, some things went up, some down, and things like petrol, which was already taxed, under another name "levy" copped 10% on top of that. So the GST was not an overall raise in tax, it was also a reduction. It was/is a good tax, and I would support raising it rather than introducing new tax's, which could be masked as a "levy" then copping gst on top of that.

 

[John Fedup]

I don't think you understand how the GST works/worked.
Before the GST was introduced, sales tax on things like sporting goods and electrical appliances was 21.5%, the GST reduced that to 10%.
Food items had no sales tax, so increased from zero to 10%.....anyway, some things went up, some down, and things like petrol, which was already taxed, under another name "levy" copped 10% on top of that. So the GST was not an overall raise in tax, it was also a reduction. It was/is a good tax, and I would support raising it rather than introducing new tax's, which could be masked as a "levy" then copping gst on top of that.

Do your states have sales taxes as well like some of our provinces do? Also Canadian federal government and some provinces have HST (where "H" stands for harmonised) which combines provincial sales tax and federal GST into a single tax collected by the federal government which then sends each province their share. Our taxes are applicable to goods and services except for food bought for home preparation.

 

[StevoJH]

Do your states have sales taxes as well like some of our provinces do? Also Canadian federal government and some provinces have HST (where "H" stands for harmonised) which combines provincial sales tax and federal GST into a single tax collected by the federal government which then sends each province their share. Our taxes are applicable to goods and services except for food bought for home preparation.

Yes, GST is collected by the federal government and then a certain percentage is given back to each state. The amount given each state varies with some given back amounts out of proportion to what is collected by that state.

Exceptions include stamp duty on real estate transactions which are collected at a state level along with similar charges on motor vehicle purchases.

 

[John Fedup]

Yes, GST is collected by the federal government and then a certain percentage is given back to each state. The amount given each state varies with some given back amounts out of proportion to what is collected by that state.

Exceptions include stamp duty on real estate transactions which are collected at a state level along with similar charges on motor vehicle purchases.

Some talk of GST change on real estate here. As for motor vehicles, PST plus GST or HST. If you are buying a boat over 200,000, an additional 20% on the amount over this limit. Another gift from junior which hasn’t been changed yet….just another reason I will despise him until the day I die.

 

[Bob53]

What tax increase? When was the last time taxes went up rather than down?

The introduction of the GST maybe?

I didn’t say they had increased. I was saying only so many increases would be possible to meet the fiscal shortfall we have, and that defence is the only part of the budget than can be cut, that doesn’t trigger some form of protest..,IMHO 9 is the more likely number. Certainly some of the fringe tax’s like fuel excise levy, luxury car tax, tobacco Medicare excise and some super rules have increased over the past 10 years., At the federal level they can’t reduce spending to reign in the deficit without every group protesting. However It looks like there will be tax increases coming. On the other hand if you look at federal spending commitments they have increased every year. We are structurally unsound budget wise.


Side note ….I live in Victoria. And that’s a a different story …Which I understand is not relevant to the GPF but We have had 72 increased or new taxes in the last 12 years.

 

[SammyC]

It’s a technology demonstrator; but with that size and hull shape I hope they are not actually planning to send it to the Aleutians - they might never see it again. OK in Puget Sound or wherever the vision is from.

Presume the year at sea implies electric drive with solar, wind and/or possibly wave power generation. If so, the generation density available would seem likely to limit speed (you wouldn’t want to run out of power and lie ahull with that) which probably explains the need for the extremely fine shape. Bit of a chicken and an egg problem.

I'm thinking Defiant is diesel powered rather than renewables. Sounds like it also comes with a large electrical generation system to supply payloads.

I attached an earlier video that shows some of the construction yard shots of Defiant being built, which provides a better view of the hull shape. It's definitely a slimline hull but would have thought it ocean capable. My yacht is smaller than that. It looks low drag so should be good for speed with a decent propulsion pack.

The video shows a mock up model of Defiant, with what they would consider is its future payload (in this case a two cell adaptable launcher with a control container). Aparently it is configured for at sea refuelling, and this will be included in the upcoming trials.

Notably, the larger model in the video is named Dauntless. Its a larger hull by the looks (in the order of twice the length) and is modelled with 4x2 cell adaptable launchers. This is perhaps the next iteration of this design.

 

[iambuzzard]

I didn’t say they had increased. I was saying only so many increases would be possible to meet the fiscal shortfall we have, and that defence is the only part of the budget than can be cut, that doesn’t trigger some form of protest..,IMHO 9 is the more likely number. Certainly some of the fringe tax’s like fuel excise levy, luxury car tax, tobacco Medicare excise and some super rules have increased over the past 10 years., At the federal level they can’t reduce spending to reign in the deficit without every group protesting. However It looks like there will be tax increases coming. On the other hand if you look at federal spending commitments they have increased every year. We are structurally unsound budget wise.


Side note ….I live in Victoria. And that’s a a different story …Which I understand is not relevant to the GPF but We have had 72 increased or new taxes in the last 12 years.

I live in Victoria as well, Bob. Depressing, isn't it?

 

[seaspear]

I live in Victoria as well, Bob. Depressing, isn't it?

Ditto

 

[iambuzzard]

Ditto

Look up Mecha Plus.

 

[SammyC]

Apparently Prince of Wales is up in Darwin. Nice video of her berthing at the new wharf.

My heart wishes she was ours, but my head still says that is a bad idea.

 

[SammyC]

for note, our second payment to the US under AUKUS has just been made. We have now committed 1.6B to the program.

 

[iambuzzard]

Apparently Prince of Wales is up in Darwin. Nice video of her berthing at the new wharf.

My heart wishes she was ours, but my head still says that is a bad idea.

Nice air group. 19 F-35s arrayed on the flight deck.